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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;People Hate Making Desktop Apps&#8230;&#8221; Since When!?</title>
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	<link>http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/</link>
	<description>Connecting Ideas</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Peter Hearn</title>
		<link>http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-134457</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Hearn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-134457</guid>
		<description>Developing web apps is like something from the stone age - we've surrendered all the speed and responsiveness of desktop apps for these kludgy text-down-the-pipe horrors we call web apps.  And why?  'cos they can run anywhere and pretty much on anything.

Sadly, the desktop app is [all but] dead - we're doomed to Javascript, ASP.Net, C#, HTML, CSS, XML where once we just dragged a field onto a form and were done.

I suppose it's progress for the user, but in programming terms it's a complete reverse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Developing web apps is like something from the stone age - we&#8217;ve surrendered all the speed and responsiveness of desktop apps for these kludgy text-down-the-pipe horrors we call web apps.  And why?  &#8216;cos they can run anywhere and pretty much on anything.</p>
<p>Sadly, the desktop app is [all but] dead - we&#8217;re doomed to Javascript, ASP.Net, C#, HTML, CSS, XML where once we just dragged a field onto a form and were done.</p>
<p>I suppose it&#8217;s progress for the user, but in programming terms it&#8217;s a complete reverse.</p>
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		<title>By: A breath of fresh air &#171; GOTO :blogPosts</title>
		<link>http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-17805</link>
		<dc:creator>A breath of fresh air &#171; GOTO :blogPosts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-17805</guid>
		<description>[...] breath of fresh&#160;air April 30th, 2007   I read with great relief: “People Hate Making Desktop Apps…” Since When!? , a post identifing an issue that I&#8217;ve been following with interest [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] breath of fresh&nbsp;air April 30th, 2007   I read with great relief: “People Hate Making Desktop Apps…” Since When!? , a post identifing an issue that I&#8217;ve been following with interest [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jake Snake</title>
		<link>http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-17710</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake Snake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-17710</guid>
		<description>Web development is much less enjoyable than writing desktop apps.&#160; Why?&#160; I can summarize in one work:&#160;JavaScript.&#160; 'Nuff said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Web development is much less enjoyable than writing desktop apps.&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; I can summarize in one work:&nbsp;JavaScript.&nbsp; &#8216;Nuff said.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Dockery</title>
		<link>http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-16412</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Dockery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:43:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-16412</guid>
		<description>I use C# in making ASP.NET web pages and .NET desktop applications; so it's not really a far cry from each other in the programming side of it.

When I am creating desktop applications... it just feels... rough. When I am creating web applications, the edges feel rounded. I enjoy creating both, but seeing as I program for a hobby and not a job, I don't really have any specific goals set. I find it much easier to program for the web without any real goals than I can for a desktop application.

Not to mention that it seems like&#160;for every&#160;idea that I get&#160;for a new desktop application, there is already something there (and that I like to use.)

Oh, and Marios Alexandrou hit it right on the head when he said that web development feels more satisfying; I find that I enjoy programming for the web because it gets seen an used a lot more than any of my desktop applications. Even if I was part of a big company (Microsoft) that develops a heavily used product (Word), I would probably still feel the same; the web just gets a lot more hits.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I use C# in making ASP.NET web pages and .NET desktop applications; so it&#8217;s not really a far cry from each other in the programming side of it.</p>
<p>When I am creating desktop applications&#8230; it just feels&#8230; rough. When I am creating web applications, the edges feel rounded. I enjoy creating both, but seeing as I program for a hobby and not a job, I don&#8217;t really have any specific goals set. I find it much easier to program for the web without any real goals than I can for a desktop application.</p>
<p>Not to mention that it seems like&nbsp;for every&nbsp;idea that I get&nbsp;for a new desktop application, there is already something there (and that I like to use.)</p>
<p>Oh, and Marios Alexandrou hit it right on the head when he said that web development feels more satisfying; I find that I enjoy programming for the web because it gets seen an used a lot more than any of my desktop applications. Even if I was part of a big company (Microsoft) that develops a heavily used product (Word), I would probably still feel the same; the web just gets a lot more hits.</p>
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		<title>By: How To: Open Source + Windows + IIS... with Stability at The NeoSmart Files</title>
		<link>http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15807</link>
		<dc:creator>How To: Open Source + Windows + IIS... with Stability at The NeoSmart Files</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15807</guid>
		<description>[...] was featured on the homepages of many link aggregation sites (including Slashdot) for our Desktop vs. Web RIAs article. And we&#8217;re glad to say that even with the extreme load, for the entire past week [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] was featured on the homepages of many link aggregation sites (including Slashdot) for our Desktop vs. Web RIAs article. And we&#8217;re glad to say that even with the extreme load, for the entire past week [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dazza</title>
		<link>http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15730</link>
		<dc:creator>Dazza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 22:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15730</guid>
		<description>Web apps are fine for the lucky few that may have high speed internet and reliable connections etc, (obviously not any Australians), and for those that want the basics of apps with limited features etc.
  

Web apps will never reach the performance or power of desktop apps, simply by their nature. Even a high speed connection is ridiculously slower than a low end computer.

The current web development frameworks are mediocre at best when it comes to features, power, access, security, reliability, compatibility, etc.&#160; Okay for minor apps and utils but no where near ready for mainstream applications.&#160;

As a small developer I can't see my type of apps ever going to Web apps.&#160; Very few people would trust web apps for tasks like business management, accounting etc.

I do see, modular based programs becoming more relevant, where desktop apps can be enhanced with extra features as the end user requires, but more where they download extra modules etc, or perhaps enhance the program with web app options.&#160;

Security is the paranoia of the day, yet people want to move everything online to the unsecured and open environment.&#160; Has any one noticed the security problems related to Java, PHP and similar server based systems?

Desktop apps also allow for greater utilisation of the power of the PC.&#160; Who wants every app to look like Firefox (or IE) ?

Desktop development is by far easier, quicker, more reliable, and offer far greater power to than any web app could possibly offer.&#160; Desktop apps are here to stay for a very long time yet, and I doubt you will see too many giving them up, in exchange for slow, insecure, advert blasted, mediocre&#160; alternatives offered by the so called "Web 2.0" ( or Web 3, 4, 5, etc), until every home as a multi-gigabit connection and servers and technology are 100% secure, and we can trust the Corporate enterprises with all our data.&#160; (It will never happen!)


  &#160;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Web apps are fine for the lucky few that may have high speed internet and reliable connections etc, (obviously not any Australians), and for those that want the basics of apps with limited features etc.</p>
<p>Web apps will never reach the performance or power of desktop apps, simply by their nature. Even a high speed connection is ridiculously slower than a low end computer.</p>
<p>The current web development frameworks are mediocre at best when it comes to features, power, access, security, reliability, compatibility, etc.&nbsp; Okay for minor apps and utils but no where near ready for mainstream applications.&nbsp;</p>
<p>As a small developer I can&#8217;t see my type of apps ever going to Web apps.&nbsp; Very few people would trust web apps for tasks like business management, accounting etc.</p>
<p>I do see, modular based programs becoming more relevant, where desktop apps can be enhanced with extra features as the end user requires, but more where they download extra modules etc, or perhaps enhance the program with web app options.&nbsp;</p>
<p>Security is the paranoia of the day, yet people want to move everything online to the unsecured and open environment.&nbsp; Has any one noticed the security problems related to Java, PHP and similar server based systems?</p>
<p>Desktop apps also allow for greater utilisation of the power of the PC.&nbsp; Who wants every app to look like Firefox (or IE) ?</p>
<p>Desktop development is by far easier, quicker, more reliable, and offer far greater power to than any web app could possibly offer.&nbsp; Desktop apps are here to stay for a very long time yet, and I doubt you will see too many giving them up, in exchange for slow, insecure, advert blasted, mediocre&nbsp; alternatives offered by the so called &#8220;Web 2.0&#8243; ( or Web 3, 4, 5, etc), until every home as a multi-gigabit connection and servers and technology are 100% secure, and we can trust the Corporate enterprises with all our data.&nbsp; (It will never happen!)</p>
<p>  &nbsp;</p>
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		<title>By: Computers and Technology - "The rumors of Microsoft's death are clearly exaggerated."</title>
		<link>http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15707</link>
		<dc:creator>Computers and Technology - "The rumors of Microsoft's death are clearly exaggerated."</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15707</guid>
		<description>[...] article in Slashdot that pointed out the above mentioned another link &#8220;People Hate Making Desktop Apps&#8230;&#8221; Since When!? which looked at comments by Ryan Stewart about how Why Do People Hate Building Desktop [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] article in Slashdot that pointed out the above mentioned another link &#8220;People Hate Making Desktop Apps&#8230;&#8221; Since When!? which looked at comments by Ryan Stewart about how Why Do People Hate Building Desktop [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Maryanne Rodriguez</title>
		<link>http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15705</link>
		<dc:creator>Maryanne Rodriguez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15705</guid>
		<description>sumfag, why do people like you have to ruin every intellectual discussion that takes place anywhere?

I mean, no wonder people think the web is such a screwed-up place...

NST: do you guys have a comment censoring policy?&#160;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sumfag, why do people like you have to ruin every intellectual discussion that takes place anywhere?</p>
<p>I mean, no wonder people think the web is such a screwed-up place&#8230;</p>
<p>NST: do you guys have a comment censoring policy?&nbsp;</p>
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		<title>By: Eugen Minciu</title>
		<link>http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15703</link>
		<dc:creator>Eugen Minciu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15703</guid>
		<description>"Oh, yes, Web 2.0 is here to save the world from the hands of the evil empire.", Yeah, right.

Paul Graham has been attracting flame like a magnet since ... I've first read about him. That's what he does, that's what he's good at, and sometimes he makes a valid point.

And deep beneath the multiple layers and coatings of BS, Paul Graham makes a valid point in his article which you people seem to completely miss.

No one really cares if developers hate or love to make desktop apps. There will always be someone there to accept the challenge of making them, no matter how hard they are to build. Besides, Paul Graham never really said that.

The people that hate desktop apps are (drumrolls, surprise) the users. People want to see computers as appliances and the way desktops and desktop apps are built today totally gets in the way of that.

Despite what some might think, web applications are much harder to build (properly). Regardless, they're installation free, and the data on your web account persists across multiple machines. Web development also allows for stupidly simple ways to connect the user to other people. Desktop applications can never compete with that.

Users don't care about computers. They just care about getting their job done and, if possible, being more connected to the ones around them. That's it.

And they couldn't care less if you do or do not like building apps for them, they're selfish and they've every right to be. They're your customers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Oh, yes, Web 2.0 is here to save the world from the hands of the evil empire.&#8221;, Yeah, right.</p>
<p>Paul Graham has been attracting flame like a magnet since &#8230; I&#8217;ve first read about him. That&#8217;s what he does, that&#8217;s what he&#8217;s good at, and sometimes he makes a valid point.</p>
<p>And deep beneath the multiple layers and coatings of BS, Paul Graham makes a valid point in his article which you people seem to completely miss.</p>
<p>No one really cares if developers hate or love to make desktop apps. There will always be someone there to accept the challenge of making them, no matter how hard they are to build. Besides, Paul Graham never really said that.</p>
<p>The people that hate desktop apps are (drumrolls, surprise) the users. People want to see computers as appliances and the way desktops and desktop apps are built today totally gets in the way of that.</p>
<p>Despite what some might think, web applications are much harder to build (properly). Regardless, they&#8217;re installation free, and the data on your web account persists across multiple machines. Web development also allows for stupidly simple ways to connect the user to other people. Desktop applications can never compete with that.</p>
<p>Users don&#8217;t care about computers. They just care about getting their job done and, if possible, being more connected to the ones around them. That&#8217;s it.</p>
<p>And they couldn&#8217;t care less if you do or do not like building apps for them, they&#8217;re selfish and they&#8217;ve every right to be. They&#8217;re your customers.</p>
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		<title>By: sumfag</title>
		<link>http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15699</link>
		<dc:creator>sumfag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15699</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Second, before PHP, building a web app was harder than a desktop one&lt;/i&gt;

You are a fucking monkey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Second, before PHP, building a web app was harder than a desktop one</i></p>
<p>You are a fucking monkey.</p>
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		<title>By: Slashdot &#124; People Don't Hate to Make Desktop Apps, Do They?</title>
		<link>http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15666</link>
		<dc:creator>Slashdot &#124; People Don't Hate to Make Desktop Apps, Do They?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 02:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15666</guid>
		<description>[...] have the tables flipped [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] have the tables flipped [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sergey</title>
		<link>http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15659</link>
		<dc:creator>Sergey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 00:24:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15659</guid>
		<description>The applet, WebStart or flash program that is executed in the browser window is not a true online application. It is backed by a plug-in that has to be installed in the browser, so basically it is some script code for a plain desktop application loaded and installed on the fly from some URL.

Moreover, we all know that it is possible to write a plug-in/some weird ActiveX component to run any application in the browser. And it has been done by numerous projects for many years.

In fact, nothing not DHTML/CSS/JavaScript is ‘online’. No sir, in fact, it is a good old desktop application executed in the browser or outside the browser with no difference.

Moreover, pure DHTML/CSS/JavaScript is just too slow and too primitive to create an application. Not to mention a number of issues with different browsers which are too difficult to solve.

Those popular JavaScript/AJAX frameworks look really cool but are they of any threat to a desktop application? Firstly as I said they are lame and slow and there is no way any OS will let online application do anything outside of an applet-like sandbox. Risks are too high.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The applet, WebStart or flash program that is executed in the browser window is not a true online application. It is backed by a plug-in that has to be installed in the browser, so basically it is some script code for a plain desktop application loaded and installed on the fly from some URL.</p>
<p>Moreover, we all know that it is possible to write a plug-in/some weird ActiveX component to run any application in the browser. And it has been done by numerous projects for many years.</p>
<p>In fact, nothing not DHTML/CSS/JavaScript is ‘online’. No sir, in fact, it is a good old desktop application executed in the browser or outside the browser with no difference.</p>
<p>Moreover, pure DHTML/CSS/JavaScript is just too slow and too primitive to create an application. Not to mention a number of issues with different browsers which are too difficult to solve.</p>
<p>Those popular JavaScript/AJAX frameworks look really cool but are they of any threat to a desktop application? Firstly as I said they are lame and slow and there is no way any OS will let online application do anything outside of an applet-like sandbox. Risks are too high.</p>
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		<title>By: People Hate Making Desktop Apps? Says Who!?</title>
		<link>http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15651</link>
		<dc:creator>People Hate Making Desktop Apps? Says Who!?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15651</guid>
		<description>[...] Computer Guru via neosmart.net Submitted: Apr 08 / 15:40      People Hate Making Desktop Apps? Says Who!? Paul Graham makes the argument that desktop development is dead. That's his premise for declaring [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Computer Guru via neosmart.net Submitted: Apr 08 / 15:40      People Hate Making Desktop Apps? Says Who!? Paul Graham makes the argument that desktop development is dead. That&#8217;s his premise for declaring [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Pietschmann</title>
		<link>http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15645</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Pietschmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15645</guid>
		<description>I'm&#160;mostly a web developer and I like writing desktop apps more. It's so much easier when you don't have to worry about multiple programming languages (ASP.NET, C#, JavaScript, HTML/XHTML and CSS)&#160;and supporting many different&#160;"platforms" (Web Browsers: IE6, IE7, Firefox, Safari, etc.). All this along with the concern&#160;of both client-side and server-side code, and now more recently using AJAX to blur difference between the two.

Now don't get me wrong, I still love doing web development. My point is just that it's easier to develop an app when you only have one programming language and one platform to worry about.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m&nbsp;mostly a web developer and I like writing desktop apps more. It&#8217;s so much easier when you don&#8217;t have to worry about multiple programming languages (ASP.NET, C#, JavaScript, HTML/XHTML and CSS)&nbsp;and supporting many different&nbsp;&#8221;platforms&#8221; (Web Browsers: IE6, IE7, Firefox, Safari, etc.). All this along with the concern&nbsp;of both client-side and server-side code, and now more recently using AJAX to blur difference between the two.</p>
<p>Now don&#8217;t get me wrong, I still love doing web development. My point is just that it&#8217;s easier to develop an app when you only have one programming language and one platform to worry about.</p>
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		<title>By: loose wire blog: It's Not the "Death" of Microsoft, it's the "Death" of Software</title>
		<link>http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15636</link>
		<dc:creator>loose wire blog: It's Not the "Death" of Microsoft, it's the "Death" of Software</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 17:18:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/people-dont-hate-making-desktop-apps/#comment-15636</guid>
		<description>[...] People Hate Making Desktop Apps... Says Who!? which adds a logical backend to the examples you've given above. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] People Hate Making Desktop Apps&#8230; Says Who!? which adds a logical backend to the examples you&#8217;ve given above. [...]</p>
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