Booting Problems from new cloned Windows 10 SSD

#1
Hello.
I currently dual boot Win7/Win10 on two separate drives. I actually have 3 drives with a backup clone of my Windows 7.
I used to triple-boot with an XP drive as well.
I removed the XP entry from the BCD entries and disconnected the XP Drive and connected the new Samsung 850 EVO 500GB to that connector.
I booted into Windows 7 as usual and ran Acronis True Image 2017 Clone to clone my Windows 10 drive.
It completed and I booted into Windows 7.
I added a Windows7/8 entry to BCD called Windows 10 SSD and gave it the drive letter E: because that's what Windows Explorer and Disk Management showed.
I rebooted and selected Windows 10 SSD.
I got the boot error message cannnot find the /Windows/system32/winload.exe.
Run System repair.

Can someone explain what is happening?
Thanks
Doug
 

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Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#2

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#6
Could this be a similar problem to the one below from me last year (entry #50 from you)
Quite possibly.
A true clone of an OS with a BCD will describe where the original system resided, not where the clone sits now (the BCD doesn't contain disk letters, EasyBCD might give you that impression because it's translating the unintelligible disk signature/cyl/track hash (called a UID) into a disk letter you can recognize using a registry look-up for your convenience (it also translates the other way round when you point it to a disk letter))
Generally, clones need to be "startup repaired" so that the BCD gets regenerated and all the UIDs reflect the change of unique disk signature.

Does EasyBCD read the boot.ini file or does my UEFI BIOS go directly to the winlogin.exe file?
You won't have a boot.ini if you've given up using XP.
EasyBCD takes no part in the actual booting of the PC, that's all down to MS bootmgr. EasyBCD just prepares the ground in advance of the next boot.

On a BIOS/MBR PC

1.After pressing the power button, the PC’s firmware initiates a Power-On Self Test (POST) and loads firmware settings. This pre-boot process ends when a valid system disk is detected.
2.Firmware reads the master boot record (MBR), and then starts Bootmgr.exe. Bootmgr.exe finds and starts the Windows loader (Winload.exe) on the Windows boot partition.
3.Essential drivers required to start the Windows kernel are loaded and the kernel starts to run, loading into memory the system registry hive and additional drivers that are marked as BOOT_START.
4.The kernel passes control to the session manager process (Smss.exe) which initializes the system session, and loads and starts the devices and drivers that are not marked BOOT_START.
5.Winlogon.exe starts, the user logon screen appears, the service control manager starts services, and any Group Policy scripts are run. When the user logs in, Windows creates a session for that user.
6.Explorer.exe starts, the system creates the desktop window manager (DWM) process, which initializes the desktop and displays it.

On a UEFI PC
2 becomes
Firmware locates the EFI system partition and starts bootmgr.efi. Bootmgr.efi finds and starts the Windows Loader (Winload.efi) etc.
 
#7
I do have a boot.ini on my Windows 7 boot drive (C:smile:. This is the drive that contains the boot menu I see at Startup.

; This boot.ini was automatically generated by NeoSmart Technologies' BootGrabber.exe
; Use EasyBCD from http://neosmart.net/dl.php?id=1 to manage your bootloader

[boot loader]
timeout=15
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows XP on E:\" /fastdetect



The same boot.ini file (same contents) is on my Windows 10 HDD and on my Windows SSD clone drive.

I tried booting from a Windows 10 DVD that I built from an ECD file to ISO (Tenforums.com) and selected Repair. Nothing changed and it didn't give me a chance
to select which drive I wanted to fix, unlike the Windows 7 fix I did last year.
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#8
It might still be there, but it's an unused remnant, created by EasyBCD when you previously added an entry for XP.
If you've abandoned XP you can delete it and any other XP related dross.

You can't boot W10 using the W7 bootmgr.
Does the failure you get mention "invalid digital signature" for Winload.exe ?
If so that's your problem.
You need to add W7 to W10's BCD and boot with W10 in control, not vice versa.
Alternatively, replace the W7 bootmgr with the (larger) W10 version.
 
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#9
I am booting my Windows 10 HDD from Windows 7.
How, I am not sure.
Cloned that HDD to my new Samsung 850 EVO SSD, added the entry for it on Drive E: because that's the option it gave me.
Tried booting from it and that's when the problem started.
I will check the complete error message and get back to you.
I will have to take a digital picture of the screen.
 
#10
Boot.ini removed from all 3 drives (Windows 7 HDD, Windows 10 HDD and Windows 10 SSD.
Windows 7 booted normally.
My Windows 10 is actually an upgraded Windows 7 from 2015 when it was released.

Edit: Just realized that my original post contained 2 of the same screen captures.
Here is the other one that I should have included.
 

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#11
It might still be there, but it's an unused remnant, created by EasyBCD when you previously added an entry for XP.
If you've abandoned XP you can delete it and any other XP related dross.

You can't boot W10 using the W7 bootmgr.
Does the failure you get mention "invalid digital signature" for Winload.exe ?
If so that's your problem.
You need to add W7 to W10's BCD and boot with W10 in control, not vice versa.
Alternatively, replace the W7 bootmgr with the (larger) W10 version.
A little more information for your suggestion.
If I boot to that Windows 10 HDD from the BIOS directly I see the attached boot screen.
If I boot like I usually do letting Windows 7 run the show and boot into Windows 10 on that HDD I get the following information when running EasyBCD 2.3 from the
Windows 10 HDD.

Why the discrepancy?
 

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#12
The only objection I have with letting my Win10 HDD control the booting process is that Win7 is my everyday OS and I feel I have more control over everything that way.
My Win10 right now is only for testing and games (like my Win7 was last year).
Someday I will switch to Win10 and then let it handle the booting process.
And the new Win10 SSD is for another level of testing. First kick at the "SSD can" and I'm curious about its capabilities.

I re-read Neosmart's excellent booting process explanation and I think I have a better handle on it, which makes me ask a question.
Does the EasyRE program re-assign a new ID to the cloned drive? Just wondering how it does its magic.

I will probably have to download it again because I "bought" it for free last year but now I can't find it.
I'll send an e-mail to Mahmoud.
 
#13
I found the BCD file that appears when I boot directly from the BIOS to the Samsung SSD drive. It is where it should be in the Boot folder of that drive, as well as the Boot folder of the drive it was cloned from.
The funny thing is, I never suspected that because I always boot from my Win7 drive and it points to the correct place on my Win10 drive.
Now I have to figure out out to tell BootMgr from my Win7 drive how to properly find the winload.exe file on my SSD.
I thought I did by adding an entry to the Win7 BCD file. Guess not.
 

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Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#14
If you think you're booting W10 from W7, it's because W7 will be using the W10 bootmgr. (The W10 install will replace it on W7 if it can see W7 on the "active" partition)
When you use EasyBCD, it doesn't matter whether you use it on W7 or W10, it's updating the "live" BCD wherever that is (It's on the partition marked "system"), so when you updated "W7's BCD", it would not have done so unless you specifically instructed EasyBCD not to use the "system" BCD, but to load an alternate. (look in the file and tools options)
your error code is discussed here
0xc000000e: The selected entry could not be loaded
 
#15
What I did last year before Win10 was released was I cloned my Win7 on a spare drive, booted into that drive and did the Win10 upgrade.
What you are saying is that in the process of doing that, the bootmgr on my original Win7 drive (the one I cloned from) was replaced by the Win10 bootmgr?
I downloaded EasyRE for Win10. I will run it but I'm wondering which drives it will attempt to "fix".
I have 4 disks marked "active". (see the attachment).

G: is a utility SSD I use to store various data files.
H: is my backup Win7 drive.
F: is my Win10 drive.
E: is the Samsung SSD.
C: is my everyday Win7 drive.

The Passport drives are external USB drives I use for daily Backup, etc.

It seems from the description of my error code that EasyRE Win10 should finx my problem but will it also "reset" all the BCD files on all my drives to the extent that I will have to rebuild my multi-boot entries afterwards? Or will it (as seems likely from the instructions) give me a choice of which drive to attempt to fix?
 

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#16
I booted the EasyRE and it found 7 drives in total (which is correct) but it was confusing me so I shutdown and disconnected the 2 USB drives.
I rebooted EasyRE again and it still found 7 drives but there are only 5 drives connected. I guess it is including the Recovery Partitions.
Like I mentioned, 4 of these drives are active.

2 Windows drives and 2 Boot drives (Windows 10). I don't know why EasyRE doesn't recognize them as Windows 10 drives.

I know the first Data Volume is the G: drive SSD (data).
I know the first Windows Volume is the Backup Win7 drive (1TB).
The second Windows Volume is my everyday Win7 drive.
The other Data Volumes are the Recovery Partitions.

I suppose I could shrink the Samsung SSD Partition to make it stand out from the Win10 HDD.

I'm not sure which drive(s) I should let EasyRE fix.

I won't go ahead until I get this figured out.

Update:

I resized the Samsung SSD partition, re-ran EasyRE and tried to do an automated repair and got an error message.

Did I waste my money on EasyRE?
 

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#17
I decided to follow your suggestion and change my controlling boot disk to the Win10 one. I booted into Win10 from my Win7 as usual and loaded the BCD Store from the Win10 Boot folder ( the old one containing WinXP entries. Deleted all the entries and entered 3 new items...Win10, Win7 Main and Win7 Backup for now.
I saved it and rebooted, selecting the Win10 HDD from the BIOS.
The menu came up and it was what I had added but...

Win10 would not load (see 1st attachment).
Both of the Win7 entries worked.

So I decided to try a Windows 10 Repair Install.
It failed(see 2nd attachment).

I also tried adding the Win10 SSD entry.
Also didn't work with the same error code and Windows 10 Repair Install couldn't repair it either.

So where I stand now is reflected in the last 2 attachments.

Also, the BOOTMGR on Win7 C: is 381 KB and the one on Win10 is 375 KB - same creation date. The one on the Win7 Backup disk is 387 KB.
 

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#18
Here is an updated screen capture to replace the Windows 10 HDD Boot BCD file one. I noticed item #4 was not visible.

It obviously is NOT using the Windows 10 BC file when booting from Win7 into 10.

I considered trying the Manual method of replacing the BOOTMGR after error 428 but I couldn't figure out which drive letter was my Installation folder and which drive letter was my active boot partition.

After booting my Win10 installation CD and selecting Repair/Keyboard Input, I found that my Win7 HDD was G: but what was it asking for as far as my Active Boot Partition is concerned? It NOT C:
That turned out to be the Corsair SSD (non OS).

I'm stuck.
 

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#19
Quite possibly.
A true clone of an OS with a BCD will describe where the original system resided, not where the clone sits now (the BCD doesn't contain disk letters, EasyBCD might give you that impression because it's translating the unintelligible disk signature/cyl/track hash (called a UID) into a disk letter you can recognize using a registry look-up for your convenience (it also translates the other way round when you point it to a disk letter))
Generally, clones need to be "startup repaired" so that the BCD gets regenerated and all the UIDs reflect the change of unique disk signature.


You won't have a boot.ini if you've given up using XP.
EasyBCD takes no part in the actual booting of the PC, that's all down to MS bootmgr. EasyBCD just prepares the ground in advance of the next boot.

On a BIOS/MBR PC

1.After pressing the power button, the PC’s firmware initiates a Power-On Self Test (POST) and loads firmware settings. This pre-boot process ends when a valid system disk is detected.
2.Firmware reads the master boot record (MBR), and then starts Bootmgr.exe. Bootmgr.exe finds and starts the Windows loader (Winload.exe) on the Windows boot partition.
3.Essential drivers required to start the Windows kernel are loaded and the kernel starts to run, loading into memory the system registry hive and additional drivers that are marked as BOOT_START.
4.The kernel passes control to the session manager process (Smss.exe) which initializes the system session, and loads and starts the devices and drivers that are not marked BOOT_START.
5.Winlogon.exe starts, the user logon screen appears, the service control manager starts services, and any Group Policy scripts are run. When the user logs in, Windows creates a session for that user.
6.Explorer.exe starts, the system creates the desktop window manager (DWM) process, which initializes the desktop and displays it.

On a UEFI PC
2 becomes
Firmware locates the EFI system partition and starts bootmgr.efi. Bootmgr.efi finds and starts the Windows Loader (Winload.efi) etc.
I just discovered that my PC actually uses BIOS and not UEFI. I looked at the /windows/panther/setupact.log file and read the line

IBS Callback_BootEnvironmentDetect: Detected boot environment: BIOS

My mobo is capable of UEFI but I've never used it. Love to try it tho sometime in the future.