Unsuccessful boot of cloned drive from Windows 7

[2wheelfan]

Hello,
I need some help please. Just below is a brief explanation of my issue:

- I have a fresh install of Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit on my C or primary drive.
- I have 3 hard drives total. Please see Disk Management screen below.
- I have cloned my C or primary drive which is connected to SATA_0 resulting in clones for both second and third hard drives.
- I can get my third hard drive marked I: to boot fine with Easy BCD

I cannot get my second drive marked A: drive to boot. Everytime I configure Easy BCD to boot the A: drive, it boots the C or my primary drive. For some reason the boot loader can't tell them apart. This may have something to do with flagging I have read about in the stickies that I don't seem to understand. Can someone explain how I can tell what flagging is...and why it matters? For example, my A: or second drive is marked as 'active'. I am not sure why this occurs and why my C: drive for example isn't active as that is what I am booted to. Is the cross hatching shown in the A: primary drive as active...considered a flag?...and does this matter?

Please let me know if you have any suggestions and thanks again. I have cloned my second drive twice without errors but can't get it to boot.

 

[Terry60]

Disk Management flags have the following meanings


"boot" = "this is the system you're running"
"system" = "this is where I found the boot files for the currently running system"
"active" (on the first HDD in the BIOS boot sequence) = "this is where I started the search for the boot files"
"active" (on subsequent HDDs in the BIOS boot sequence) ="this is where I will look if I don't find something in the MBR on the first HDD"

(the hatching is just the partition you've clicked on in the display)

Please cut/paste the contents of EasyBCD's "view settings" (detailed mode)

 

[2wheelfan]

Hi Terry,
Thank you for your response and support of this forum.
Please find my Easy BCD detail mode below as requested:

Windows Boot Manager
--------------------
identifier {9dea862c-5cdd-4e70-acc1-f32b344d4795}
device partition=F:
description Windows Boot Manager
locale en-US
inherit {7ea2e1ac-2e61-4728-aaa3-896d9d0a9f0e}
default {7a1d6e21-87c1-11e1-bce1-90ed4dc5bc84}
resumeobject {bb472962-87ec-11e1-9536-806e6f6e6963}
displayorder {7a1d6e21-87c1-11e1-bce1-90ed4dc5bc84}
{7a1d6e22-87c1-11e1-bce1-90ed4dc5bc84}
toolsdisplayorder {b2721d73-1db4-4c62-bf78-c548a880142d}
timeout 6
displaybootmenu Yes
Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier {7a1d6e21-87c1-11e1-bce1-90ed4dc5bc84}
device partition=C:
path \Windows\system32\winload.exe
description Primary C: Drive
locale en-US
osdevice partition=C:
systemroot \Windows
resumeobject {cbeb5dcd-8e5d-11e1-b3e8-806e6f6e6963}
Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier {7a1d6e22-87c1-11e1-bce1-90ed4dc5bc84}
device unknown
path \Windows\system32\winload.exe
description Back up I: Drive
locale en-US
osdevice unknown
systemroot \Windows
resumeobject {5b065d86-8e5d-11e1-a85d-806e6f6e6963}

What I have decided to do since frustrated with getting the middle drive to boot, is disconnect it as it adds needless complexity...so I have the third drive disconnected in waiting in the event I need it as a back up cloned Win 7 OS. Over and above the stickies posted, I have read the archives and found your writings about cloned drives not containing the boot loader and you propose a strategy to disconnect all drives except the drive that won't boot and run the Windows 7 installation disk in Repair Mode three times if necessary to add the necessary boot manager. So that is what I will do if it comes to that in an effort to make the unbootable drive usable as a viable OS.

The other thing I will likely do over time is load a fresh OS...perhaps to the inactive drive. This time I will do so with the drive space formatted and allocated such that Windows 7 only installs as a single partition. The dual partition for each hard drive adds even more complexity...needlessly IMHO.

Right now as Easy BCD details reflects, I have two bootable drives. At start up I can choose between the two and it works very well and two drives is probably enough anyway.

I do have a question please. When adding/editing a boot entry to Easy BCD, if I have two hard drives, which hard drive is Easy BCD entries added to?...is it 'only' the hard drive used for the active OS i.e. C: drive? Reason I ask is...it seems the same settings of Easy BCD are there when I boot the back up drive...which becomes the new C: drive. By contrast, I have noticed that when changing Easy BCD settings in a given drive, it doesn't affect the other drive(s). So this is a bit confusing to me anyway. Can you explain where BCD goes...as I have the software installed on both drives?
Many thanks.

 

[Terry60]

Did you select all the way down the View settings window ? (it scrolls), because there's no entry in the BCD for your 3rd system.
When you use EasyBCD the entries are added to the live BCD, i.e. "system" in Disk Mgmt.
When you boot either of the other systems, it's still using the "system" BCD, not the one on the same HDD as the other OSs.
For that reason you shouldn't need to triple startup repair the clones because you're not using their copies of the BCD when you boot them. (look in DM and you'll see that "boot" moves to the new OS but "system" stays on the 1st HDD in the boot sequence.
You only need to repair the cloned BCDs if you ever want to boot the 2nd or 3rd HDDs directly by switching the BIOS boot sequence.
There are no disk letters in the BCD. The BCD identifies and locates OSs using the unique disk signature and the partition position on the HDD combined into the UID.
Letters shown by EasyBCD are translations of that UID into the letter of that partition as seen by the OS running EasyBCD for your convenience.
(letters are just registry entries, not physical labels).
When you add entries for the clones from C, you must point the "drive" field to the letters as the running master OS sees them (A and I). If you then view the BCD from either of those clones, you'll find the letters are changed (because they don't really exist) to the way the running clone sees them (translates the UID value to its own map)

 

[2wheelfan]

Thanks...that helps. I only show two entries in BCD details because I decided to disconnect the middle drive I could not get to boot. I employed the same procedure to boot the middle drive with BCD as I did with the third drive shown but for some reason...the middle drive would not boot in spite of trying repeatedly.
When trying to boot the middle drive, for some reason, the primary or first drive would always boot. Perhaps this relates to the UID value being identical between the primary drive and the exact clone of it. I don't know. In spite of creating a boot entry with Easy BCD that called out the A: drive, it would perhaps defer to the UID which maybe was the same because of the clone. For some reason the machine with Easy BCD boots the third drive up fine..also a clone.
Also, I cloned the middle drive twice in an effort to get it to boot. No errors...A: drive seems fine..when attempting to boot to A: drive with Easy BCD, machine always boots to original C: drive connected to SATA_0 versus A:drive connected to SATA_1. Can't explain it.
Thanks again.

 

[Terry60]

Add the entry again for the one you think didn't work, select it from the boot menu and then from the system that boots post a Disk Mgmt screenshot and the contents of view settings.

 

[2wheelfan]

Will do Terry.
Thanks again for your help.


Addendum:


Hi Terry,
OK...third drive hooked back up. Of course I couldn't resist trying to boot it again, and as every time before, my C or primary drive boots. One peculiar aspect of my middle drive is...the drive letter seems to change occasionally. As you explained to me, this likely doesn't affect the UID for that particular drive...now referred to as the D: drive. Previously as shown above, the middle drive was referenced in Disk Management as the A: Drive. Of course when a new given drive boots, it is now called the C drive. The I: drive designation seems to remain steadfast however...letter rarely changes.

Current Disk Management with three drives:

Also below please find Easy BCD details for all three hard drives:

Windows Boot Manager
--------------------
identifier {9dea862c-5cdd-4e70-acc1-f32b344d4795}
device partition=F:
description Windows Boot Manager
locale en-US
inherit {7ea2e1ac-2e61-4728-aaa3-896d9d0a9f0e}
default {7a1d6e23-87c1-11e1-bce1-90ed4dc5bc84}
resumeobject {bb472962-87ec-11e1-9536-806e6f6e6963}
displayorder {7a1d6e23-87c1-11e1-bce1-90ed4dc5bc84}
{7a1d6e25-87c1-11e1-bce1-90ed4dc5bc84}
{7a1d6e26-87c1-11e1-bce1-90ed4dc5bc84}
toolsdisplayorder {b2721d73-1db4-4c62-bf78-c548a880142d}
timeout 6
displaybootmenu Yes
Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier {7a1d6e23-87c1-11e1-bce1-90ed4dc5bc84}
device partition=C:
path \Windows\system32\winload.exe
description C: Drive
locale en-US
osdevice partition=C:
systemroot \Windows
Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier {7a1d6e25-87c1-11e1-bce1-90ed4dc5bc84}
device partition=I:
path \Windows\system32\winload.exe
description I: Drive
locale en-US
osdevice partition=I:
systemroot \Windows
Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier {7a1d6e26-87c1-11e1-bce1-90ed4dc5bc84}
device partition=D:
path \Windows\system32\winload.exe
description D: Drive
locale en-US
osdevice partition=D:
systemroot \Windows
resumeobject {af1d80b1-8f99-11e1-a56a-806e6f6e6963}


I am hopeful you can solve this mystery.
Thanks so much for your help.

 

[Terry60]

No mystery. Look at the "boot" designation. You have successfully booted into the clone D. It was only "I" to the previously booted OS (see definitions in my original reply). They have their own separate registry maps of letters to drives. It appears that you didn't "clone" the drives (by my definition of "clone" - i.e. absolutely identical copy) You appear to have used an "intelligent" W7 compatible copying utility which has not cloned the drive, but made an edited copy of it with a heavily modified registry (hence letter change from C)
It should work, but you will have problems when you run any "non-C" OS with a "C" disk visible.
Stupid 3rd party software (anything by Adobe e.g.) will put some files in C:\Program Files\Common Files even when you tell them to install to x:\Myownplace.
You can see the potential (unpredictable) consequences of 3 OSs all putting some data from an app on the OS, and some overwriting each other in a common file.
My advice would be not to use whatever command you used previously to make the copies, but to use a whole-drive backup image and restore it to the new drives so that you have genuine clones. ("Repair" them 3 times if you like so that each drive is independently bootable in a future emergency situation)
Then add two entries to the "master" system's BCD for a triple boot, in which each system will be C whenever it's designated "boot"

 

[breaker]

Just jumping in to comment...

I didn't realize Windows now allowed a fixed disk to have A: for a drive letter. I assumed it was still reserved A: and B: for the floppy drive(s). Is this common?

Nevermind, I see now you can if you don't have a floppy... sorry.

 

[2wheelfan]

Thanks Terry...I sure appreciate the clarification.
I guess my conundrum is what to do moving forward. For the record the cloning software I used was: EaseUS ToDo Backup. I used to use Acronis...but my copy of Acronis is only applicable to Windows XP and not 7 64bit.

What you say about a clone not being bootable with other drives disconnected is true. I tried that in an effort to get it to boot and got a solid light blue screen with a note in the bottom RH corner...no doubt you have heard of that or seen it...saying Non-genuine copy of Windows 7. Based upon what you have written and other threads on the web, I believe the disk if booted stand alone can be repaired with the Windows 7 installation DVD...perhaps taking 3 times as you say.

I do have a question however and this is quite confusing to me. When I cloned my second drive...I always change the desktop of my C: drive I am booted in. Are you saying that I am actually booted to the drive shown as D?...or are you saying the drive shown as C is what I am booted to? The reason I don't understand this...is I deliberately changed the desktops of all three drives..each time I clone to differentiate them....changing my C drive right after the clone to make it different from each clone. When trying to boot the D drive, my lasted changed C drive desktop (after the clone) always returns. Further, I change some of the pictures on my C drive...and the same picture files always come back when I try to boot D. So if you are saying I am booting D drive, it doesn't appear to be the case by virtue of the desktop shown and picture files I have deliberately made different to test this. The same is corroborated by looking in My Computer in the various Picture files of the different drives.

Can you further explain or provide a test to see what drive I actually have booted? If you are saying...looking above into my Disk Management screen that I am actually booted to the D drive...this doesn't comport with the fact that I have my original C drive desktop and C drive Picture files.

Any further light you could shed or advice what to do moving forward would be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[Terry60]

I said you'll get all sorts of puzzling effects when you have a Windows called C that isn't the booted OS.
As I said before, "boot" in DM tells you the system which is actually running. If you were making changes to "C" in the mistaken belief that C indicates the running OS (it doesn't), then that would add to the confusion.
That's why I advised you to use a true cloning method, so that each OS is C when it's "boot"
In theory all Windows since XP can run as as any letter you want (my XP is D, all the others are C), and indeed they do. But leave a C visible with a copy of Windows on it and all bets are off as to how it will behave in practice. (When I run XP as D all of Vista/7/8 are hidden, so no C exists on that OS)
Quad boot Vista, XP, W7 and Ubuntu using HnS to protect system restore points from XP (Ubuntu now replaced with W8)

@breaker
A and B stopped being reserved for floppies since Vista. I still have a floppy/card reader in my latest box (so cheap, not worth omitting) but B on my PC is my Boot partition (get it ?)

 

[2wheelfan]

Terry,
Processing all the things you have taught me and others with your advice, I may be starting to piece together what is going on. The second drive I could never get to boot was a clone of a clone. This I believe is the root cause. Further, I may have violated an additional tenent of cloning. I cloned a non booted drive aka my I: drive when I performed the cloning process. I believe these two things may have created this unbootable middle drive. What I did is disconnect all drives except my I: drive and tried to boot it. It wouldn't boot by itself and I wasn't shocked by that even though it would boot with Easy BCD with the C drive present. So I inserted the Windows 7 installation disk and performed the repair 3x's which created a bootable stand alone hard drive. I repeated the same process with the second drive that I could never get to boot...all other drives disconnected, inserted the installation disk to repair...and response from the computer was...the hard drive could not be repaired. My thought is...a clone of a clone + cloning the I drive and not the C drive that was booted...and might add, cloning the I drive before it was repaired as it wouldn't boot on its own prior to repair, is likely the root cause of creating a non bootable middle drive.

Recourse moving forward is to clone from a hard drive that will 'boot as a stand alone drive'. Perhaps it is also prudent to always clone from a drive that is the active, booted C drive.I am less sure about the latter than I am the former which I believe is key and the lesson taken away here...cloning from a 'clone that won't boot by itself' (without repair) will create an unbootable drive.
Thanks again for all your wisdom.