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Thread: Improved method of dual booting XP and Vista

  1. #1
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    Default Improved method of dual booting XP and Vista

    This method is an adaptation of the methods given within these articles.

    a) How to dual-boot Vista with XP (with XP installed first) - step-by-step guide with screenshots

    b) Multiboot Vista / XP and Other OSes with Grub4Dos Menu - MSFN Forums

    c) How-To: Hide Vista Partition from XP with NeoGrub! The NeoSmart Files


    It eliminates the 'optional' section of unhiding the Vista partition in article c), which has to boot XP and consequently wipes Vista restore points. Which defeats the purpose of hiding Vista's partition in the first place.

    A work around to safeguard your Vista restore points in regards to c), would be to change the Vista partition flag from hidden to unhidden manually when you want to boot it, with a disk utility, but that's just not realistic.

    It's best to bypass Vista's bootloader on powering up, and opt for getting into GRUB first.


    Process:

    After setting up EasyBCD, follow these steps (in Vista).

    1.Rename bootmgr to bootmgrv within root directory of XP installation partition. (Make sure that you have unchecked 'Hide protected operating system files' in Explorer's Tools -> View.

    2.Rename NeoGrub to bootmgr.

    3.With EasyBCD, configure menu.lst with script below (it resides in \NST folder of XP partition). Read side note about drives and OS partition locations, to hide/unhide your Vista partition:


    # Bootloader Configuration File

    default 0
    timeout 20

    # Boot XP by finding and loading ntldr - protects Vista's restore points by hiding partition.
    title Microsoft Windows XP
    hide (hd0,2)
    find --set-root /ntldr
    chainloader /ntldr

    # Boot Vista by finding and loading bootmgrv
    title Microsoft Windows Vista
    unhide (hd0,2)
    find --set-root /bootmgrv
    chainloader /bootmgrv


    4.Save changes.

    5.In EasyBCD, select 'Change Settings', make sure default OS is Vista and change 'Bootloader Timeout' equal to 0.


    This also works:

    1.Download grldr from WikiHome - JotSpot Wiki (grub4dos).

    2.Rename grldr to bootmgr and paste in root directory of XP partition.

    3.Copy 'menu.lst'and save in root directory of XP installation.

    4.Carry out step 5 above.



    NeoGrub is basically grldr, but has been configured to look for menu.lst in \NST.

    When 'Microsoft Windows Vista' is selected from the GRUB menu on startup, control is then passed to the Vista bootloader, selects Vista automatically and boots.

    Using GRUB, you can add other operating systems to menu.lst, such as Linux or whatever.

    A side note: For me, XP is installed on first drive (hd0), and the second partition (hd0,1) (zero based). Vista is installed on first drive (hd0), and the third partition (hd0,2).
    My first partition (hd0,0) is being used for something else, a recovery partition.
    You will have to change these for your particular setup.

    MAKE SURE YOU BACK UP!! Before making these changes.

    It's a good idea to have the live CD, GParted drive utility. You can change partition flags within it (hidden, boot, etc), if things go awry.
    Ubuntu live CD is also something that I keep handy.

    Patrick

  2. #2
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    Hi Patrick, welcome to NST.
    We don't recommend using Neogrub to hide Vista from XP anymore,
    Take a look at Vista Hide 'n Seek which is a grub based boot manager which will do everything you mention in your post automatically.
    Terry

    Baker of fine scones.



    Please keep requests for help in the forums where everyone can see them, not in Private Messages.
    Posting a plea for help or information in the forum, will be seen more quickly by a widely experienced audience.
    A solution in the forum could also be useful to other future visitors, so PLEASE, no private requests. (they won't be answered !)

  3. #3
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    Hi Terry,

    Would you be referring to the way that Vista's partition was hidden in article c) ? Yes I would have to agree with you, if that's what you are referring to. If not, what is the basis of your recommendation not to use the method of renaming NeoGrub to bootmgr etc. Other than being an automated process with Vista Hide 'n Seek? (Beta software, incedently).

    This method allows one's full control over one's boot management, rather than having to rely upon software that is still in the development process that may produce undesirable affects. In my experience of software development, this is usually the case.

    Would be interesting to see if this method that I have posted resolves anyones dual booting issues.

    Patrick

  4. #4
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    There is still a way without software to take control of your boot. There is a bcdedit command in Vista that you can use. It is jsut that EasyBCD is much easier to use and add entries to than trying to manually edit the BCD yoruself.

    There has always been this option. EasyBCD was created to make it easy. While HnS is in Beta at this time there are only so many people that have tested it compared to the thousands that have used EasyBCD. Which is why HnS has not been taken out of Beta yet.

    With only having roughly 100 people using it and testing it there are still so many situations that have not been come across. can only simulate so much in VMWare.

    I am not saying that your method is bad. It does seem like a bit more work than using HnS or EasyBCD to get the job done for you.
    ~Alex~ .:Forum Moderator:..:Guinea Pig for Testing:.
    I do not accept support questions via EMail, PM, IM or my Spaces page! .
    This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.




    All your posts are belong to NeoSmart!!

  5. #5
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    You'll notice Patrick that I first came here last year after using the Neogrub route to protect Vista, querying, like you, the "optional section" being illogical and self defeating. I received a fix within minutes from Guru, and used the amended menu.lst successfully, putting up with the 2-stage boot, whilst waiting for what was then a promised future single boot menu version.
    You'll see that at the end of the thread, someone posted what's essentially the same solution as you've suggested, and what HnS also does (renaming bootmgr to assume top-level control).
    Whilst some of us have suffered temporary inconvenience as Beta testers of early builds of HnS, I can report that it's now extremely reliable, and will work for users with less competence and confidence than you.
    Sadly, loads of people that come here, have a tendency to jump into things with little or no preparation and having failed to read properly (if at all) what they need to know before starting. One of the reasons for developing HnS (apart from the main one of making a 1-stage boot) was to avoid the many cries for help from people who failed to get the neogub stuff working.

    You don't need to use it, because it will only do what you've already achieved manually, but for new dual-booters looking to protect Vista it will do both jobs simultaneously (create the dual boot and protect sys rest ) and it supersedes the method previously posted in the above link.
    Terry

    Baker of fine scones.



    Please keep requests for help in the forums where everyone can see them, not in Private Messages.
    Posting a plea for help or information in the forum, will be seen more quickly by a widely experienced audience.
    A solution in the forum could also be useful to other future visitors, so PLEASE, no private requests. (they won't be answered !)

  6. #6
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    Hello Alex,

    Firstly, I'm not editing Vista's BCD manually. I'm renaming NeoGrub to bootmgr, so that Vista's bootloader is bypassed at startup. Once we are presented with the GRUB menu and 'Microsoft Windows Vista' is selected, bootmgrv is called (Vista's bootloader). No manual changes to BCD have been made.

    The method does use EasyBCD. That's the whole point of posting this thread on this forum. It's for existing users of EasyBCD. One can still configure menu.lst through EasyBCD and see the results of those changes in the GRUB menu on powering up. As well as 'Bootloader Timeout' settings.

    Secondly. If one requires that they would like to safeguard Vista's system restore points, then one must hide the partition on which Vista is installed on, from XP, when XP boots. XP will recognize them as corrupted XP restore points.

    As far as I'm aware, the bcdedit command in Vista does not do this. Microsoft are aware that there is a bug with Vista's system restore points being wiped when dual booting XP and Vista. They have no inclination to fix it either.

    Terry. In regards to HnS, I look forward to testing it out.

    Patrick

  7. #7
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    Patrick,
    Alex's point was not that you could use Easy to do what you wanted. He's pointing out that NST writes software to make difficult things easier for the end user.
    Easy is an NST GUI to simplify the use of BCDedit commands so that the end-user doesn't need to know all the parameters and run the risk of catastrophe by finger trouble or lack of understanding.
    Similarly, HnS is NST's UI to achieve what you're doing without needing to know the full set of grub commands, and running similar risks.
    He was just using one as an analogy for the other, to point out why we recommend HnS these days; though as I pointed out, the pre-UI method is detailed in the forum, if a little difficult to find now.


    Addendum:


    P.S. Be careful running HnS on your system ! If you intend to test it (you've no need to, as I said), remember that your system already has a "bogus" bootmgr, which HnS will assume is the real thing.
    If you really want to test it for academic purposes, you'll need to reset your system to vanilla Vista boot first other wise the results will be "interesting" (in the sense of the Chinese proverb/curse)
    Last edited by Terry60; August 31st, 2008 at 05:51 AM. Reason: Automagically-merged double-post.
    Terry

    Baker of fine scones.



    Please keep requests for help in the forums where everyone can see them, not in Private Messages.
    Posting a plea for help or information in the forum, will be seen more quickly by a widely experienced audience.
    A solution in the forum could also be useful to other future visitors, so PLEASE, no private requests. (they won't be answered !)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    Hello Alex,

    Firstly, I'm not editing Vista's BCD manually. I'm renaming NeoGrub to bootmgr, so that Vista's bootloader is bypassed at startup. Once we are presented with the GRUB menu and 'Microsoft Windows Vista' is selected, bootmgrv is called (Vista's bootloader). No manual changes to BCD have been made.

    The method does use EasyBCD. That's the whole point of posting this thread on this forum. It's for existing users of EasyBCD. One can still configure menu.lst through EasyBCD and see the results of those changes in the GRUB menu on powering up. As well as 'Bootloader Timeout' settings.

    Secondly. If one requires that they would like to safeguard Vista's system restore points, then one must hide the partition on which Vista is installed on, from XP, when XP boots. XP will recognize them as corrupted XP restore points.

    As far as I'm aware, the bcdedit command in Vista does not do this. Microsoft are aware that there is a bug with Vista's system restore points being wiped when dual booting XP and Vista. They have no inclination to fix it either.

    Terry. In regards to HnS, I look forward to testing it out.

    Patrick
    Okay in response.

    1. Why would i go thru the trouble of installing EasyBCD and NeoGRUB and rename all of them when i can simply install HnS and have it work with a few clicks? Intead of having to make sure i ahve Admin rights to rename those files. My whole point was that these tools were created for simplicity.

    Making sure you avhe the rights permissions to rename the files is not that easy. Many people do not know if they have the right permissions and your task would require that they have the permissions. Which you dont explain to them how they could get the permissions if they needed to.

    2. Again my post was merely about simplicity. These tools were just created to make it easier for users to do this. Not everyone will find renaming 2 seperate boot files easy to do. Let alone how to work with the menu.lst file without first understand how XP, Vista and EasyBCD works to boot the system.

    I still have to explain to people what a missing NTLDR means. So i highly doubt these people would be inclined enough to understand how to get pemissions, rename, and edit the menu.lst when they have trouble understanding that they have to have the XP boot files on the boot drive.

    As i said this was in no way a mock of you or what you haev suggested. I am merely stating that these were created for simplicity. No need to worry about permissions. No need to worry about having to unhide all yoru files, to find the files to rename (Another thing you didnt mention), or anything like that. It is jsut a few simple clicks and your done.

    That is all i am merely saying. I am happy you found a solution that works for you. I am more than glad you wrote out how to do it for people who do understand what it would take to get it working like you suggested. More power to you. I am sincerely happy that you found a alternate solution.

    But then again not everyone is worried about restore points.

    The main thing i see wrong is that you dont tell where to find the files, you dont tell how to access the files since they are system protected files, you dont tell how to gain permissions to access the files if needed. There are some major things that you dont cover which some people might not know how to do. Yeah it seems simple when you know what you are doing. Just rename a few files and viola. but what if you dont know how to access them? What if you need to take ownership?

    These things do matter. Which is why EasyBCD is the way it is. Computer Guru even said himself that he might think of combining the 2 and make them 1 utility.

    Like i said this isnt anything against you. I am just trying to show how simpicity is the nature of the beast. People want it done fast and easy. they want to click a few mouse buttons and be done with it. They dont want to have to unhide files or take ownership. They just want it to work.
    ~Alex~ .:Forum Moderator:..:Guinea Pig for Testing:.
    I do not accept support questions via EMail, PM, IM or my Spaces page! .
    This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.




    All your posts are belong to NeoSmart!!

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