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Thread: Vista and XP on ACER 5315 : My boot problems

  1. #1

    Default Vista and XP on ACER 5315 : My boot problems

    I have VISTA Home Basic on C: (label: ACER) : I created a new partition D: (label: NEW VOLUME). After changing (in BIOS) from AHCI to IDE (HDD Mode) I was able to install XP from my XP disc. (There is another hidden partition labelled: PQSERVICE, for VISTA clean reinstall purposes).

    When the PC booted it came up with XP. But, I don't think I had a way to boot into VISTA after I installed XP. I did not see a regular WINDOWS boot option.

    Anyway, I discovered EASY BCD and installed it. Without knowing much about what I was doing I added some entries. I shut down, but now my laptop does not boot into anything.

    Well, how do I psyche this out?

    Do I remove what EASY BCD has added to my laptop? Do, I try to boot into XP, or maybe VISTA?

    Perhaps I should try to boot up into XP. Then I can use EASY BCD again and get it right next time.

    I'm using XP RECOVERY: Note - drive letters are different from when I was using XP.

    In XP RECOVERY, C: is NEW VOLUME where XP is; D: is DVD ROM; E: is PQSERVICE; F: is ACER where VISTA is.

    I'm looking at things like making sure boot.ini is correct. I ran bootcfg /rebuild so that I could see WINDOWS installs but only 1 is identified on E, that is the hidden recovery partition PQSERVICE.

    There should be an installation on C: (XP) and F: (VISTA).

    Is there a way of downloading a program to a CDROM that will fix my boot problems?

    If not I'll have to make sure bootini is correct.

    Should there be a boot.ini in NEW VOLUME (XP)? There was no boot.ini there, I had to put one there, because I was getting invalid boot.ini. I copied it from ACER (VISTA). That shows BIOS is wanting to boot from NEW VOLUME, where XP is.

    boot.ini says:

    ;This boot.ini was automatically generated by Neo....

    ;Use Easy BCD....

    [boot loader]
    timeout=15
    default=multi(0)disk(o)rdisk(o)partition(3)\WINDOWS
    [operating system]
    multi(0)disk(o)rdisk(o)partition(3)\WINDOWS="Windows XP on D:\"fastdetect"

    I don't know where to start. Perhaps use FIXMBR or FIXBOOT.

    My main interest is actually getting back into VISTA. There is no data on XP, so NEW VOLUME could be deleted. No problem maybe that is what I should do. But how to get back into VISTA is a worry.


    Addendum:


    I can simply remove NEW VOLUME, but will VISTA boot up?


    Addendum:


    The problem is, using EASY BCD has confused my sitation. Because I'm not sure what it's effects have been.

    I'm in XP RECOVERY. If I try to use FIXMBR I'm told I have a non-standard or invalid MBR. Maybe that would fix the problem. If EASY BCD is responsible for that, and I use FIXMBR, would it cause a problem? I would hope that all that would happen is that Windows would get what it normally expects and my PC might boot into some OS. Boot.ini needs to be correct of course. Now I'm in C: in NEW VOLUME, so I'm changing MBR of NEW VOLUME. NEW VOLUME is I believe partition (3). Well, my boot.ini directs to partition (3). But maybe I have NTLDR or NDETECT problems. I hope not? Cannot understand though why bootcfg only finds windows install on E: PQSERVICE.

    Which raisies the question: If you are in XP and you use EASY BCD, and something goes wrong, can you simply use FIXBOOT and FIXMBR and BOOTCFG, to effectively remove anything EASY BCD might have done? And boot into XP and restart EASY BCD in XP and try again?

    On F: label: VISTA, I have "Inactive OS/2 Boot Manager".
    Last edited by richard5573; April 9th, 2012 at 06:55 PM. Reason: Automagically-merged double-post.

  2. #2
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    When you install XP after Vista/7/8 you regress the boot manager to NTLDR which is incapable of booting anything newer than XP.
    You should have followed the instructions in
    Installing XP After Vista or 7 - EasyBCD - NeoSmart Technologies Wiki
    which would have led you to
    Recovering the Windows Bootloader with EasyBCD - EasyBCD - NeoSmart Technologies Wiki
    If you are now unable to boot either system you'll need to follow these instructions instead
    Recovering the Windows Bootloader from the DVD - EasyBCD - NeoSmart Technologies Wiki
    as mentioned in the sticky thread
    FAQs - PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING WITH A PROBLEM
    Terry

    Baker of fine scones.



    Please keep requests for help in the forums where everyone can see them, not in Private Messages.
    Posting a plea for help or information in the forum, will be seen more quickly by a widely experienced audience.
    A solution in the forum could also be useful to other future visitors, so PLEASE, no private requests. (they won't be answered !)

  3. #3

     

    Hi. Yep, I should have come here first, if I had things would have been okay. I've just been looking at the relevant stuff. I see that it was not abnormal, as such, that VISTA did not come back, as per the explanations. So, the no VISTA option, as such was not a problem, because that is a known issue which is fixable. But, after EASY BCD XP did not return. I never got back to XP. May not have figured things correctly when I was using EASY BCD. Will read instructions given.


    Addendum:


    For some reason ntdetect.com was missing from C:\. I went to re-install XP. I was given the chance to repair an installation. So, I chose it. Seems to have just led to a reinstall XP. It changed boot.ini a bit. But when it came to go further in the installation, got same as before - laptop tried to reboot, did not make it, then started to reboot again, going round and round. So, I did "copy D:\i386\ntdetect.com C:\". That put ntdtect on C:\ along with the existing boot.ini and ntldr.

    So, now I'm having a fresh install of XP. But, earlier I has chosen "Last Known Good Configuration" and a message had appeared " NTDETECT FAILED". Now, if I'd have put ntdetect.com in C:\ then, I probably would have got my XP back. Now, I've got to go thru all the install rigmarole again and Windows updates etc.

    And I've eventually got to get VISTA back.


    Addendum:


    Okay, let me recap:

    My laptop had VISTA. I installed XP from the XP disk. (I had to change HDD MODE to IDE, from AHCI in BIOS). I'm still set to IDE MODE.

    I installed EASY BCD (on XP), and tried to set up dual boot, but did not know what I was doing.

    On re-boot I got nothing. So, I could not boot into either OS.

    After messing around and trying this and that eventually discovered no NTDETECT.COM on C:\. Put that file on C:\. As it happens, I tried a repair in XP RECOVERY, ended up changing boot.ini a bit and re-installing XP.

    I've now downloaded all XP updates.

    Of course, I see that EASY BCD is already installed, because the re-install was not a clean install. So, I've not re-installed EASY BCD, it's there from previous activity.

    Okay, now I think my task is to simply install the VISTA bootloader to the MBR.

    Now, I think because I'm in XP, (or maybe because I've not re-installed EASY BCD), when I run EASY BCD I get: "The boot configuration data store could not be opened. The system cannot find the file specified. Would you like to manually load a BCD registry for EASY BCD to manage? Please note that EASY BCD requires the Windows Vista/7 bootloader, and will not work in XP only environments."

    I have the option of choosing YES or NO.

    Now, I think I'm supossed to select NO.

    When I do EASY BCD opens in the "View Settings" page. There are no entries.

    According to some instructions, in EASY BCD, I'm supposed to go to the "Bootloader Setup" page. I cannot see such a page. But I can see "BCD Deployment".

    I think then I'm supposed to select "BCD Deployment". I think I'm supposed to select "Install the Windows Vista/7 bootloader to the MBR". And then press "Write MBR".

    Then I go to "Add New Entry" page. Select "Windows NT/2K/XP/2003" from the drop down list. Give it a name. Press "Add Entry". Leave the checkbox for automatic configuration checked. Re-boot.

    Okay, I've not done anything yet. I do wonder if I should be uninstalling and then re-installing EASY BCD. I think originally when installed, it had some entries that I had not manually put there.

    I think I'm close, I just need someone to confirm what I should do. Thanks.

    I really should be working from VISTA and may soon remove XP. But, first things first, I need to boot up in VISTA.
    Last edited by richard5573; April 10th, 2012 at 05:57 AM. Reason: Automagically-merged double-post.

  4. #4
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    EasyBCD looks for the BCD in the "active" partition on the first HDD in the BIOS boot sequence. In your various repair attempts, you have probably made XP active and to use EasyBCD you'll need to point it at Vista. Then post here the contents of "view settings" (detailed mode).
    Terry

    Baker of fine scones.



    Please keep requests for help in the forums where everyone can see them, not in Private Messages.
    Posting a plea for help or information in the forum, will be seen more quickly by a widely experienced audience.
    A solution in the forum could also be useful to other future visitors, so PLEASE, no private requests. (they won't be answered !)

  5. #5

     

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry60 View Post
    EasyBCD looks for the BCD in the "active" partition on the first HDD in the BIOS boot sequence. In your various repair attempts, you have probably made XP active and to use EasyBCD you'll need to point it at Vista. Then post here the contents of "view settings" (detailed mode).
    I think you are saying that I've got to use a utility, or whatever, to set the ACER partition active. That is where VISTA is. Currently I'm sure NEW VOLUME is active, where XP is. I can use DOS's PTEDIT to make partition 2 active instead of 3 as it is now.

    As to what I see in Disk Manager: ACER (partition 2) shows "Healthy (Unknown Partition)" and NEW VOLUME (partition 3) "Healthy (System)".

    If I make ACER active, then I would suppose VISTA would boot, but I suppose you do not think that is going to happen at all. But XP is going to boot. If it does, I'll start EASY BCD and report findings.

    I'm looking at the Partition Table with PTEDIT.

    I see the following:

    TYPE BOOT

    1 27 00
    2 17 00
    3 07 80
    4 00 00

    Partition 2 is type Hidden IFS (NTFS HPFS) and not set to boot. Partition 3 is type Installable File System (NTFS HPFS). How do I edit to set 2 the active unhidden partition? Reverse the values between 2 and 3?


    Addendum:


    Addendum:


    Okay, I set partition 2, ACER (VISTA), to (Type) 07 and (Boot) 80 and partition 3, NEW VOLUME (XP), to (Type) 17 and (Boot) 00. But got: "Windows could not start because the following file is missing or corrupt <Windows root> \system32\hal.dll." Got that no matter what boot sequence I set in BIOS, either to first look at my DVD ROM or HDD, but I have only one HDD so that makes sense.

    I'm stuck.

    I have a BCD file on my XP partition: D:\Program Files\NeoSmart Technologies\Easy BCD\neosmart.bcd

    I unhid C: my VISTA partition. I might as well. There is no BCD file there.


    Addendum:


    When I open the BCD file I have on D::

    Overview

    There are a total of 0 entries listed in the bootloader.

    Path: D/ProgramFiles\NeoSmart TechnolgieszEasyBCDzprofile

    Default: Not set
    Timeout: 10 seconds
    EasyBCD Boot Device: D:\

    Detailed (Debug Mode)

    identifier (b.........)
    device boot
    path \boot\memtest.exe
    description Windows Memory Diagnostic
    lacal en-US
    inherit (7........)
    badmemoryaccess Yes


    Addendum:


    The thing is, I did not put EasyBCD on VISTA, then install XP. I had VISTA installed, but I went and installed XP. Then I installed EasyBCD on XP. Hoping to set up a dual boot from within XP.

    When I make VISTA partition active, to see if it will boot, there is an "invalid boot.ini " message and a message about hal.dll mising or corrupt.
    Last edited by richard5573; April 10th, 2012 at 01:26 PM. Reason: Automagically-merged double-post.

  6. #6
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    I didn't say to make Vista active. I said point the EasyBCD "BCD not found" dialogue at Vista.
    The boot folder is directly in the Vista partition root i.e. x:\boot\BCD, but is super-hidden and needs folder options set like this to be visible.
    There won't be anything of use in the Neosmart folders. We're looking for the data in your live BCD not the template that EasyBCD uses. You won't be able to boot from the Vista partition yet, because the MBR IPL has been regressed to look for NTLDR, not bootmgr. You need to get EasyBCD running on XP then restore the Vista boot files as detailed in the earlier links.
    Terry

    Baker of fine scones.



    Please keep requests for help in the forums where everyone can see them, not in Private Messages.
    Posting a plea for help or information in the forum, will be seen more quickly by a widely experienced audience.
    A solution in the forum could also be useful to other future visitors, so PLEASE, no private requests. (they won't be answered !)

  7. #7

    Default Using bootcfg with ACER 5315: My problems

    I ought to be able to rebuild boot.ini with bootcfg.

    I know not what the problem is, but here is the info:

    My laptop came with VISTA and I put XP on after. I have one HDD, with 3 partitions. I've installed EasyBCD, but it's not working yet, and EasyBCD changed things from originally.

    Partion (1) is RECOVERY partition PQSERVICE, it has on it bootmgr.

    Partition (2) is the VISTA partition. It has on it boot.ini; NTDETECT.COM and ntldr.

    Partition (3) is the XP partition. It has on it boot.ini; ntdetect.com and ntldr.

    There is a problem with boot.ini because I'm getting a "hal.dll is missing or corrupt" message.

    Here is what it says in both boot.ini files on (2) and (3):

    This boot.ini was automatically generated by NeoSmart....

    [boot loader]
    timeout=15
    default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(3)WINDOWS
    [operating systems]
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(3)WINDOWS="Windows XP on D:\" /fastdetect

    Okay, now if I run bootcfg /rebuild it comes up with one windows install, on (1) of all partitions! Don't get that at all, because bootcfg I don't think detects VISTA. It should be finding XP on (3).

    When I choose to scan with bootcfg I get one installation, the RECOVERY partition (1). How weird is that?

    When I chose rebuild with bootcfg came up with:

    [boot loader]
    timeout=30
    default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)windows
    [operating systems]
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)windows="Windows XP" /fastdetect

    I edited boot.ini going from partion (1) to (3). Still get the error message on boot-up.

    When in XP RECOVERY, I get into the XP partition. And I run bootcfg from there. I notice that for partitions (1) and (2) I see "\windows", for partition (3) "\WINDOWS".

    Basically, bootcfg /scan should be coming up with a windows install on partion (3) not (1).

    Of course, I can edit boot.ini on (3), so both ARC path formats point to partition (3), but that has not worked.

    I don't get it at all.
    Last edited by richard5573; April 11th, 2012 at 07:06 AM.

  8. #8
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    Please don't start new threads for the same problem, it makes it much more difficult to keep track of the necessary background.
    If you now have Vista "active", your simplest course is to boot the Vista DVD (or repair disk) and let MS fix the Vista boot for you with 3 iterations of "repair your computer" > "startup repair".
    When Vista is booting, EasyBCD will sort out the XP files for you by just adding a new entry to the repaired BCD.
    http://neosmart.net/wiki/display/EBC...r+from+the+DVD
    Terry

    Baker of fine scones.



    Please keep requests for help in the forums where everyone can see them, not in Private Messages.
    Posting a plea for help or information in the forum, will be seen more quickly by a widely experienced audience.
    A solution in the forum could also be useful to other future visitors, so PLEASE, no private requests. (they won't be answered !)

  9. #9

     

    Actually I thought that the problem with bootcfg is a Windows problem and not the same issue with pointing EasyBCD to VISTA which I thought was a EasyBCD problem. Unless this problem with bootcfg is related to EasyBCD.

    I mean, could we be in a situation where installing EasyBCD on XP as I did has influenced how bootcgf /scan or /rebuild comes up with results? Or maybe it's because of my ACER 5315.
    Last edited by richard5573; April 11th, 2012 at 07:54 AM.

  10. #10
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    It's not through installing EasyBCD. It's just a passive app, doing nothing except occupy some disk space until you ask it to do something.
    I imagine the difficulty you're having with bootcfg will disappear when you sort out the original dual-boot problem.
    Terry

    Baker of fine scones.



    Please keep requests for help in the forums where everyone can see them, not in Private Messages.
    Posting a plea for help or information in the forum, will be seen more quickly by a widely experienced audience.
    A solution in the forum could also be useful to other future visitors, so PLEASE, no private requests. (they won't be answered !)

  11. #11

     

    Okay, now that I've got my XP back after loosing for the second time (due to messing about with EasyBCD) , I've finally pointed EasyBCD to the BCD file that EasyBCD placed in partition (1).

    Yesterday I first installed XP on logical drive partition (5), I copied that partition with a partition manager to primary drive partition (3) because I wanted XP on a primary partition. I eventully got XP to boot from partition (3). I've now two boot options XP1 on (3) (primary drive) and XP2 on (5) logical drive. (3) is set active and always is set active, and boot.ini points to either (3) or (5).

    When I booted onto XP1 on (3) yesterday I installed EasyBCD for the second time. I had originally installed EasyBCD on a partition that was numbered (3). I've more partions now, I was messing with a partition manager yesterday, creating partitions, but when EasyBCD was first installed it was on a partition that was (3).

    I suspect, but not sure, that the BCD file is from yesterdays install of BCD. If not, it's from my first messing about with BCD after my first install of XP the other day on a partition that was (3).

    When I first installed EasyBCD on XP, the other day, VISTA was, and is, already installed in (2). (1) has the VISTA Recovery partition. My task is to boot into VISTA using EasyBCD by using a BCD file found in (1). As I say, I don't know whether the BCD file is from the first or second EasyBCD install. I did try to add a boot option the other day when I first installed EasyBCD. This second install of EasyBCD, yesterday, I've not done anything.

    This is what I see in Detailed (Debug Mode):

    Windows Boot Manager
    ---------------
    identifier {9dea....}
    description Windows Boot Manager
    locale en-US
    inherit {7ea....}
    default {761....}
    display order {761....}
    toolsdisplayorder {b27....}
    timeout 30

    Windows Boot Loader
    ------------
    identifier {761....}
    device ramdisk=(boot)\sources\boot.wim.{761....}
    path \windows\system32\boot\winload.exe
    description Windoes Setup
    locale en_US
    inherit {6ef....}
    osdevice ramdisk=[boot]\sources\boot.wim.{761....}
    systemroot \Windows
    detcthat Yes
    winpe Yes
    ems Yes

    How do I proceed from here? Thanks.
    Last edited by richard5573; April 13th, 2012 at 04:22 AM.

  12. #12
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    You still seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of EasyBCD's role.
    The BCD is not "...from EasyBCD's install..."
    The BCD is a part of any Vista/7/8 install and belongs entirely to MS. EasyBCD is just an app to enable you to manipulate the contents without needing to know the command line syntax for the MS alternative "bcdedit".
    Installing EasyBCD doesn't create a BCD, neither does starting it. It just checks for one in the "normal" place when you do start it, and if one doesn't exist there, asks you where it is.
    It is capable of creating one or of resetting the one in use, but only when you specifically command it in the advanced options.
    If you're successfully running XP solo, and you want to get the Vista bootmgr back in control, you're here again.
    Recovering the Windows Bootloader with EasyBCD - EasyBCD - NeoSmart Technologies Wiki
    Terry

    Baker of fine scones.



    Please keep requests for help in the forums where everyone can see them, not in Private Messages.
    Posting a plea for help or information in the forum, will be seen more quickly by a widely experienced audience.
    A solution in the forum could also be useful to other future visitors, so PLEASE, no private requests. (they won't be answered !)

  13. #13

     

    Okay understand. Should I be pointing EasyBCD to where it is, which is on partition (1)? I ask, because I was worried about things messing up with XP if I unhid partition (1) (the restore drive and marked type 27). Should not have a problem because (3) is marked active. Anyway, yesterday I was taking no chances, so I managed to copy the BCD file from (1) to a spare partition and BCD is currently pointing at that. I think you are going to tell me point Easy BCD to the BCD file on partition (1), but just positevely checking.

    Well, I'm ready to do the business. Now, just a further question: Now I don't know is my ACER 5315 requires any particular set-up, but partition (1) is PQSERVICE the recovery partition and normally hidden and set as type 27. Partion (2) is the currently installed VISTA partition. Okay, I have choices here regarding partitions before I "Write MBR". Should I be selecting partition (2), where the installed VISTA is, or keep it on PQSERVICE (1)? I will set (1) to type 27 again when I'm finished and it will not come up as a drive letter on reboot.


    Addendum:


    Oh, I keep getting mixed up with Create Bootable External Media. That is not appropriate here.

    Okay, I checked off "Install the Windows Vista/7 bootloader to the MBR ". Then wrote to MBR. Using the BCD file that produced the above readout in EasyBCD.

    On boot up I got what I was getting previously, choice of XP1 or XP2. So, I think I'm using still boot.ini . I'm stll not into VISTA.


    Addendum:


    Recovering the Windows Bootloader with EasyBCD - EasyBCD - NeoSmart Technologies Wiki

    Okay, that link in "Type 1" tells me how to recover and reinstall the Bootloader to the MBR and Bootsector. That's all I did. But, the full process is here:

    Installing XP After Vista or 7 - EasyBCD - NeoSmart Technologies Wiki

    Which tells me after installing Windows Vista/7 bootloader to the MBR to "Add New Entry". I think I'll loose all OS systems though. I seem to have been here before.


    Addendum:

    Gosh I think it worked!! Now, I've got to be able to boot into VISTA.
    Last edited by richard5573; April 13th, 2012 at 01:48 PM. Reason: Automagically-merged double-post.

  14. #14

     

    It would help if I knew what I was doing.

    This is what I know: Vista first installed on PC. After installing XP Vista is unbootable, because XP removed Vista bootmgr/BCD bootloader, and uses it's own instead. (Whatever that means: I mean Vista is on partition (2) and there is no bootmgr or BCD there. But, I do see bootmgr and BCD on partition (1) the Recovery drive).

    Currently my XP boots up on the system volume, partition (3) where ntdetect, ntldr and boot.ini are. (3) is also the boot volume or partition because that is where the XP OS is and boot.ini points to (3). So (3) is both XP system and boot partition.

    Now, the objective is to boot from Vista. Now, the instructions are after XP has installed to download to and run EasyBCD. Then select "Install the Windows Vista/7 bootloader to the MBR". Then "Write MBR". That is to get the EasyBCD bootloader back, whatever that means.

    Then the insrtuction is to add a new entry "Select Windows NT/2K/XP/2003" from the drop down list. Reeboot.

    Now, there is nothing here about pointing EasyBCD to a BCD file. That is not required to get Vista back according to the instructions.

    What happens if I do point EasyBCD to the BCD file at (1), which I've done? Should I try to undo that? Then select "Install Windows Vista/7 bootloader to the MBR" "Write MBR" followed by adding the entry as described above? I think you point EasyBCD to a BCD file when, for some reason, you absolutely need to, because following the instructions "Installing WindowsXP after Windows Vista or Windows 7" - did not work.
    Last edited by richard5573; April 14th, 2012 at 06:51 AM.

  15. #15
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    They do work if you've been following the instructions all along, but you arrived here having tried random self-help measures before posting which have left your system in an uncertain state, and us guessing as to what it was originally.
    I suggest you read this very helpful tutorial about multi-booting to familiarize yourself with how it all fits together.
    When you install XP after Vista/7/8, it doesn't remove the BCD from Vista, it replaces the PBR with a version that stops looking for the Vista/7/8 bootmgr, and looks for the XP NTLDR instead.
    Your OEM appears to have installed Vista in C with the OEM recovery partition "active" so that the boot files were installed in there. Presumably they also customized the bootmgr to provide their own restore and factory reset facilities.
    That's the BCD you're using, and EasyBCD will locate it automatically if the partition is active, which you will need it to be for the boot to work properly as it did before you installed XP and began trying to get the dual-boot back.
    Terry

    Baker of fine scones.



    Please keep requests for help in the forums where everyone can see them, not in Private Messages.
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