Dual boot: I'm missing something

#1
I have Win7 x86 on C:, I also have Win7 x64 on K:-a seperate hard drive (it's still there), I used Acronis to put an image of that K: partition onto the E: partition (same hard drive as C: partition). I then added an entry for that image to boot from E:, yet it still defaults to the drive housing the K: partition.

What am I missing? I can't seem to get it.

Here is an overview of my settings:

There are a total of 5 entries listed in the bootloader.
Default: Windows 7 - x86
Timeout: 5 seconds.
Boot Drive: C:\
Entry #1
Name: Windows 7 - x86
BCD ID: {current}
Drive: C:\
Bootloader Path: \Windows\system32\winload.exe
Entry #2
Name: Windows Recovery Environment - K
BCD ID: {3864c303-f26b-11dd-b27d-80cb5a4ef9bf}
Drive: K:\
Bootloader Path: \windows\system32\winload.exe
Entry #3
Name: Windows 7 - x64 - K
BCD ID: {3864c30e-f26b-11dd-b27d-80cb5a4ef9bf}
Drive: K:\
Bootloader Path: \Windows\system32\winload.exe
Entry #4
Name: Microsoft Windows 7 x64 - E
BCD ID: {3864c313-f26b-11dd-b27d-80cb5a4ef9bf}
Drive: E:\
Bootloader Path:
Entry #5
Name: Windows 7 x64 - E
BCD ID: {3864c31b-f26b-11dd-b27d-80cb5a4ef9bf}
Drive: E:\
Bootloader Path: \Windows\system32\winload.exe
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#2
Why have you got 5 entries for 3 systems ?
#4 doesn't have a bootloader path.
Are you using EasyBCD 2.0 latest build ? 1.7 doesn't have W7 support (pre-dates it by over a year)
Try deleting entries 2-5 and adding one each for K and E.
Is K a stand alone installation with its own BCD ?
 
#3
The last two entries were where I stopped, I haven't cleaned up yet.
I know, the bootloader path, however, is in entry 6.
I'm using EasyBCD 2.0 Build 78.
No, it's not stand alone on K, the bootloader is on C.
I'll try deleting all the others except for C and recreating both K and E, though I don't really care about K, I'll be formatting it.If that doesn't work, maybe because C is the active partition? Do I perhaps need to create a serparate active partition for the boot loader as that hard drive now has two system partitions?

Thanks for your reply and suggestions.
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#4
There's only ever one "system" partition in a Windows multi-boot (DM flags)
"system" = where all the boot files are
"boot" = the OS you're running at the moment
even with 3 OSs there's only ever one "boot" and one "system" flag.
The first moves with the current OS, the second stops on the partition from which they're all booted
(yes - it's extremely confusing, blame MS for turning normal nomenclature on its head)
(If you look at the "system" flag with Linux, it calls it "boot" !)
You don't need to create a separate partition for the BCD
 
#5
Sorry, I agree that MS is odd in their terminology, I find myself switching system and boot in my mind.
However, I said 'active' partition, not 'boot' or 'system'.
The system partition must be an active partition, and there can be only one per hard drive.
Do you think the following is the answer to my problem?

How to create a seperate system partition for dual booting Windows Vista and Windows 7
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee829683(WS.10).aspx#BKMK_Step4
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#6
You said
"Do I perhaps need to create a serparate active partition for the boot loader as that hard drive now has two system partitions?" (my italics)
That's why I said there's only one "system" even with 2 OSs, and You don't need a separate partition for the boot files. C should be "system" "active".
The active flag just tells the MBR where to look for the "system" (boot) files.
I have a separate boot partition, but only because I don't use a MS boot manager for my boot menu.
In my case "system" and "boot" flags move together with the running system, and the OS isn't "active".
If you're using MS bootmgr (with the help of EasyBCD) then MS rules apply, as previously discussed.
The normal design for a multi-Longhorn boot is that the second and subsequent systems add themselves to the BCD of the first. If you install them independently so that they can't see the first BCD, they'll need to be added manually, as you've been trying.
There's no need for a separate partition.
 
#7
You said
"Do I perhaps need to create a serparate active partition for the boot loader as that hard drive now has two system partitions?" (my italics)
That's why I said there's only one "system" even with 2 OSs, and You don't need a separate partition for the boot files. C should be "system" "active".
.
Ah, I have explained myself poorly, I apologize.
The two disk management screen captures attached here show my computer running under both the x86 and x64 operating systems.
My C drive under x86 is partition 2 of Disk 1, under x64 the C drive is partition 1 of Disk 3.
I simply want the x64 OS to show the C drive as partition 1 of Disk 1, which is E under x86, and F under x64.
I have also included a detailed listing of my boot menu. God, this was simpler under XP.
 

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Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#8
I'm afraid you can't change the letter an OS calls itself once it's installed.
There was a bug in W7 DM that allowed letter changes for "system" "boot" and "page" flagged partitions, (options not available in any other OS), but it was a bug, and if you were to try it it would break the OS. (There are too many registry entries already referencing that letter for all the hardware driver locations etc. Change the letter and the OS can't find it's own drivers and the boot hangs.)
 
#9
What makes you think I want to change the letter?
K drive under x86 becomes C under x64.
C drive under x86 becomes F under x64.
You are taking issue with my terminology rather than thinking about what I'm trying to do.
Thanks for trying, somewhat, anyway.
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#10
I'm sorry. I obviously haven't got what your problem is yet ?
"I simply want the x64 OS to show the C drive as partition 1 of Disk 1, which is E under x86, and F under x64."
 
#11
The MBR presently boots to the system partition on Disk 3(x64), or on Disk 1(x86), and the OS always indicates it's partition as C.
My thought was that If I have a serparate partition for the MBR on Disk 1, then when I boot to either x86 or x64 on that Disk 1, the only difference is that the booted partition would indicate C, and the other would be another letter besides C. (hence, the link in post #5)
Or perhaps the separate MBR partition would always be C under either system?
I would then be able to free Disk 3 entirely, as well as Disk 2.
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#12
The partition letters aren't affected by where you boot the OS from.
Letters aren't "real". They're just entries in the registry of the running system. Each system has its own map of which letter goes with which device, and no 2 systems need to agree on what any device is called, unless you use DM to reset the letter allocations. (but you can't change anything with the flags mentioned in post #8)
 
#13
OK, I've thought of another way to put it.
If I were to boot from my x64 installation CD, and choose to install windows, picking one of the raid partitions (not the one with my x86 on it), it would add an entry to my boot list for that new installation, and then, when I booted to it, that partition would be 'C'.
This is what I am trying to accomplish with an image, instead of reinstalling.
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#14
If the partition you clone, calls itself C: then that's what's in the cloned registry, and that's what the clone must also call itself when you boot it.
That doesn't mean that the BCD entry will call it C:
There are no letters in the BCD. The BCD uses UIDs.
Because UIDs are so user-unfriendly, EasyBCD translates the UIDs into letters for you. Those are the letters as seen from the OS that's running EasyBCD, not what the systems see themselves as.
If you boot a different system and use it to look at the same BCD, the letters will change to whatever the new system calls those partitions.

You can't clone an OS that doesn't call itself C:, and restore the image as C: if that's what you want.
The only way to get it as C: is to install it as C: (by booting from the DVD)
 
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#15
We are not on the same wavelength. I understand (and am aware of) everything you have said.
Forget the drive letters.
I now have a boot entry for a second partition on Disk 1, in addition to the other boot entry already there. (achieved by installing a win7 to it, rather than trusting EasyBCD)
I am going to slap an image of another OS to that partition and see if it works.
Using EasyBCD before, it did not work. It booted to the drive I took the image from. See?
So if there is something within the OS that has the device id of it's drive, that is what I must change, if possible, I guess.
This is what bugs me.
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#16
I think we're only going to understand one another by defining some terms.
You say
"I now have a boot entry for a second partition on Disk 1, in addition to the other boot entry already there"
What do you mean by "boot entry" ?
boot as used by Linux and colloquially, meaning "the boot files" ("system" to MS)
boot as used by MS meaning "the flag indicating the location of the Windows folder of the current OS"
or are you referring to an entry in the BCD.
 
#17
OK, boot entry = a line in the boot menu referencing the OS and it's partition.
I don't wish to change the MBR on Disk 1 to another disk, just add a line.

Compare this screen capture with the previous Win7-x64-E screen capture. This is what I'm hoping it will still look like after I overwrite this partition with the image from Disk 3.

Do you see how they are different?
They should be the same because I had specified partition WD-Raid0-2 with EasyBCD.
Now this one is on WD-Raid0-4, but the point is that C now shows on Disk 1.
(WD-Raid0-4 = C, previously C was showing on Disk 3 - sea500x, not WD-Raid0-2 like it should have.)
 

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Terry60

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#18
I think I now understand what you want, but if I'm right it means that you haven't understood what you've already done.
In your post #1 you say that you cloned 3/1 to 1/1 (K to E as seen from x86 C on 1/2) Then you added a BCD entry pointing to E , but when you selected it it still went to K.
You put a screenshot in post #9 as evidence that it didn't work, but what it actually shows is that it did.
The "boot" flag indicates the running system (1/1 - E under x86, now F)
3/1 is still C but it's not "boot". It's not running.
Your "problem" seems to be that the Acronis software you're using is too sophisticated.
It seems to be able to modify the identity of a clone so that it doesn't clash with the original copy.
My clunkier cloning software, ends up with the copy having the same letter identity as the original.
 
#19
Aha! Glorious! Could you specify that clunkier software, please? Would I need to run it under the OS I'm copying, or does it matter?
Acronis has an option to replace the MBR, which I don't use when restoring the image as it trashes the system, it also has a 'clone' option, which is what I originally used to migrate the x86 from Disk 2 to Disk 1.
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#20
I used Paragon Drive Copy 9.0 Personal SE. (free with PC World mag last April).
It creates a true clone identical to the original, which means that "startup repair" is needed if you clone a Longhorn OS, because it clones the UID from the original OS partition in the new BCD, which of course is wrong once the clone is put in a different place.
I used it successfully to shuffle and resize all of my partitions when I replaced an old IDE HDD with a second big SATA, and reorganized my quad-boot.
I'm sure there are freeware utilities out there which will do the same.