Dual boot XP Pro on ext eSATA HDD with Vista 32 bit preinstalled on internal HDD?

One hopes MS meets the tough challenge of delivering a reliable and credible solution to those still reluctant to switch from XP (including corporates who largely refuse to embrace Vista) as well as those who have migrated to Vista. This is made all the tougher with accelerating global economic slowdown, increased uncertainty about how long this painful stretch will last and how quickly we will recover once things have actually bottomed out. Against this backdrop it would take a minor miracle or a really dazzling product, correctly priced, to tempt potential clients to switch from existing OS as many will need compelling reasons to do so.

Hopefully MS will also have learnt valuable lessons from its failed expectations (notably Vista) and perhaps we may well be pleasantly surprised. Who knows? We will just have to wait and see.

In the meantime Mak will no doubt keep us posted on his experience with the Beta to whet our appetite.
The thing MS is focused on now besides simply seeing an even more bloated version with 7 as some have labeled Vista is a self maintaining OS. With XP first seeing the PreFetch type of memory manager Vista sees the SuperFetch that keeps the most often used programs partially loaded into memory allowing them to see faster startups.

The disk management tool defragment/analyser is also running quietly in the background keeping the fragmentation down to 0%! With XP you had still had to manually start that if not set to a schedule. But Mak is the one that will keep us updated on what will be seen next.

Mak 2.0

Staff member
Win7 will have Super Fetch. It will use REadyBoost. Along with a new method for maintaing the boot loader as well. But it will not be bloated. One of the major focuses of Win7 is to REDUCE the Kernel and the finger print of the kernel within the OS. Which is why you can see such things as Win7 loaded on a EEEPC while you can not see Vista loaded on there.

Even in Pre-Beta stages they have already made major steps to reduce the kernel and the clutter that was with Vista. As that was the biggest complaint about that OS.
Hi folks: Finally seeing a de-bloated OS, snappier than its predecessors? Looks promising indeed. My two desktops show RAM usage at idle: 0.4GB (XP) vs. 1.2GB (Vista); neither satisfactory. As for Windows 7, thumbs up for integrated memory optimisation and auto smart defragger. Would be good if they also integrate decent partition management, auto registry cleaner/defragger and auto installer that tracks all changes made when installing non-MS software so one can uninstall cleanly. Brilliant if a decent image backup/restore (not limited to NTFS) is also integrated? Yes, let’s hear more!

Mak 2.0

Staff member
User tool or automated system component? If its user, hopefully its better than bcdedit.
Not quite. Lets just say that it wont be contained with the OS. It will be kept separate for more useful purposes.

Cant give exact answer. That part is covered by NDA.

Lets just say that the Gallery that Guru has here gives a hint to what happens.
It will definitely be an upgrade seen there. The reduction of the kernel is certainly a progressive step.

As far as the Super Fetch I figured they would expand on that a little further to improve efficiency overall.
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Mak 2.0

Staff member
If it isnt even in Private Beta testing you wont see it on public testing anytime soon. With Vista it wasnt until Beta 2 that you seen it go public. Even then it was almost a month after the private testers had it.

It isnt till Jan that us private testers are getting it. So i wouldnt even think of a public debut of Win7 Beta till at least June. Maybe sooner depending on how fast we work to find bugs and how fast they work to fix them.
The latest article I cam across pointed June of next year seeing the first public beta release as well. I think that's a safer time table at this point since it wouldn't be until early 2010 the final release would come out. Another 1/31 release in 2010 like was seen with the 1/31/07 for Vista? That would hold to the 2-3yr. release schedule to some degree for each new version.

Mak 2.0

Staff member
Dont be surprised if you see Win7 release around the same time Vista Business hit a couple year ago. Namely November. With how fast the turn around is expected to be with this. I wouldnt be surprised if they hit a date in 2009 for release.
We'll see when it's out it's out! :tongueout: It would be preferred by many not seeing it out until 2010 however to see more little quarks in the next version taken care of first. Many refused to even consider Vista before it came out waiting for the SPs to start rolling.

If you look back XP came out rather fast following the Great ME flop. XP simply incorporated things from the 2000 platform getting away from a dos shell there while still leaving many bugs left to fix. SP3 as you know finally saw some long overdue there.

Mak 2.0

Staff member
You are not taking into consideration that there is not a major code rewrite happening. They are using much of the Vista code. Just making it better. Which they started since the release of Vista. So they have been working on the code already for almost 2 years.

Unlike the Vista release which was almost all new code this will not be. So there isnt going to be a major Beta cycle which will require multiple Beta releases along with multiple build releases for each cycle.

You are putting to much emphasis on this being a lot like the Vista Beta where Beta 1 had 4 or 5 different builds to it then Beta 2 had 3 more then finally RC stages which had several more.

It wont be like that. A lot of the code crunching is done, or will be done. Much of the feature set is being done. Most of the work that has to be done, is bug hunting and application testing. Vista drivers work, so there isnt much rewrite there. Almost all Vista programs work, so not much rewrite there.

So this is a lot different than the Vista release cause M$ isnt so dependent on the manufacturer's getting their stuff updated to work. Cause at least 99% of it already does. Even EasyBCD and the rest of the software from NeoSmart already works. That shows you how little interaction has to be taken by manufacturer's to get ready for Win7. It is just Microsoft getting themselves ready.
From what I was taking in about 7 was that the Vista kernel would still be put to use there while the main desktop gui would see an overhaul. That included a new file indexing system based on content according to one source.

I came across one article mentioning Microsoft had planned to dump the 32bit kernel altogether following the next version. But that was a 3rd party source there nothing from MS has been seen yet about that.
The most common complaint with any new version has always been drivers and new versions of softwares needed. Going from XP into Vista a few things wouldn't run and board drivers had to come through the MS updates since only XP versions were found at the support site.

The one advantage of seeing the same kernel used in 7 would be still being able to use the same hardware/device drivers since I still need a few updated versions of some softwares still seeing the need to have XP on.

The main thing 7 should see however is updated support for the vast amount of hardware changes seen in the 7-8yrs. time. You are now seeing desktop boards with 32gb memory capacities without any OS or softwares other then Cad development that will ever have any need for that much.

Mak 2.0

Staff member
Now you guys are getting it all confused.

Vista SP2 couldnt do what Win7 is going to be able to do.

Win7 is not going to use the Vista Kernel. The Vista kernel is bloated. That alone is what account for 1GB of the install of Vista. From what i have heard.

The Win7 Kernel is going to be highly condensed. Which is not something they could include in a SP for Vista. Too many changes are taking place and there is no way it can be considered Vista anymore cause of the many changes to the Kernel.

That is why it is going to be Win7. IT isnt just the GUI. People have to get over the GUI. The GUI does NOT make the OS. It just makes up the part that we see.

The Kernel is being redone. completely over hauled. It is going to be made from a Hummer to a Corvette. Which is not something that can be changed with a SP which is why it isnt being done for Vista.

The GUI is being changed yes. It is still using Aero yes. But that doesnt make it Vista cause of it either.

So PC eye - no it isnt the Vista Kernel. It is a highly modified Vista Kernel. Just as the Vista kernel was a highly modified XP kernel.

Justin - Go back to the early days of Widnows.

Win95, Win98, Win ME, Win2000, XP (2001)

No where in there was more than 3 years between OS's. This is the longest that Microsoft has had a OS out and it hurts them. Cause you cant always adapt the new stuff to the old kernel. People get to dependent on the OS thinking that cause it has been out so long that it is good. When the fact is there has been how many updates to XP over the 7 years? I would wager to guess close to 100,000 since it was release.

That is not security. That is trouble waiting to happen. People need to realize that it is time to move on at some point.

OS X releases update how often? Every year or 2 between the major updates.

Linux depending on teh distro can be every 6 months with major changes.

Windows 7 years? Sorry but that is not a good sign. That is people getting lured into a sense of false security.
I wasn't the one pointing out that 7 would be seeing the Vista kernel. That was simply what is being pointed out in an article on the next version there. You'll see that quite a bit in various blogs people are taking seriously. "For one, it is not developing a new kernel for Windows 7, but instead will refine..." http://searchwinit.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,sid1_gci1315206,00.html#

And where are these articles seeing all that?

"Microsoft is not creating a new kernel for Windows 7. Rather, we are refining the kernel architecture and componentization model introduced in Windows Vista. While these changes will increase our engineering agility, they will not impact the user experience or reduce application or hardware compatibility. In fact, one of our design goals for Windows 7 is that it will run on the recommended hardware we specified for Windows Vista and that the applications and devices that work with Windows Vista will be compatible with Windows 7." http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2008/05/27/communicating-windows-7.aspx

Mak 2.0

Staff member
Where are teh articles saying that the Vista Kernel will be redone? Right in your quote.

but instead will refine the Vista kernel for use in the new operating system
There is a difference between using the Vista Kernel and changing it. Using it like you have referenced is keeping it in tact with no changes. Refining it is not keeping it in the state that it is and changing it into something more.

Which is exactly what i have been saying about then redoing the kernel for more optimization. It is going to be reduced, redone, condensed, what ever term you want to use. They all mean teh same exact thing. It is going to CHANGE from what it currently is into the Kernel for Windows 7. Some smaller than what it is now for better performance.

REdone, over hauled, redefined, condensed, redone and all that mean basically the same exact thing. It is being changed. It is going to be smaller than what it is. (Condensed) It is going to be different from the Vista Kernel cause if it wasnt then it would be the Vista Kernel. But since they are making changes to it then it is not.

Cant change the theme on XP from Royale to Silver and still call it the Royale theme. It is changed.

No where in those artilces does it say anything less than what i have said. I just used different terms.
You can take a plastic trash bag out of a waste basket and poke a hole in the side to let all the air out when crushing it down but it still remains the same bag. The point was that they were still going to be using the "Vista kernel" which even as a simple reference term sticks in the craw of many not familiar with any concepts of programming as simply seeing the same thing all over.


Super Moderator
Staff member
Early days... from what i've heard from early windows adopters it was grim. Anyway I deleted my post as your right about them not doing something like that to the kernel in an sp update. I just meant the smaller stuff and the fact they want to get a new os out much more quickly these days.