EASIBCD 2.3 Bug Fix - Feature

#1
Some feedback on an issue with win 8.1. boot. It took me many hours to resolve but it is the type of thing EASIBCD could easily detect, let along fix.

Context:
Added SDD added to a laptop which had a win 7 OS and normal win 7 reserve area (MBR, not GPT)
A reserve partition + win 8.1 OS was added to the SSD
- EASIBCD was used with all combinations on adding the win 8.1 but it would not boot.
(boot on HDD, boot on SSD, all the optiosn reported success!)
Giving a false error of 0xc0000428 "cannot verify the digitial signature" which had me going down the wrong rabbit holes.
The issue finally turned out to be an older bootmgr on the SSD reserve partition which caused the incorrect error. Using "attrib -r -h -s " did not work because the owner of the file was trustedinstaller.
The solution was to change ownership to an admin , then change attrib's then delete the file and copy the correct file across.

Part of the answer lied in https://neosmart.net/forums/threads...ify-the-digital-signature-for-this-file.9274/

As an end user, you would think EASIBCD use would take care on win7 / win8.1 issues for you as it is advertised as supporting Win 8.1

>> I really hope 2.3 can be released with greater issue detection and or "just works" for more scenarios.
In my option EASIBCD should have been able to fix or detect this issue.

Regards
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#2
EasyBCD adds/deletes/changes entries in the BCD.
The BCD belongs to MS bootmgr which uses it as a data store.
EasyBCD doesn't know (can't guess) when you are modifying a BCD entry, (it can update any BCD, local or remote) which copy of bootmgr you will subsequently invoke to boot your system from which BCD.
The problem is simple - MS boot-loader digital signatures are not forward compatible
i.e. You can't call a newer OS's loader from an older OS's manager.
That's a simple MS architectural restriction which you either follow (boot W7 from W8, not W8 from W7) or unofficially circumvent (update the older OS with the newer OS's copy of bootmgr)
It's not a choice EasyBCD can make for you, and outside of EasyBCD's purview to make unofficial, unannounced modifications to your OS.
 
#3
EasyBCD adds/deletes/changes entries in the BCD.
The BCD belongs to MS bootmgr which uses it as a data store.
EasyBCD doesn't know (can't guess) when you are modifying a BCD entry, (it can update any BCD, local or remote) which copy of bootmgr you will subsequently invoke to boot your system from which BCD.
The problem is simple - MS boot-loader digital signatures are not forward compatible
i.e. You can't call a newer OS's loader from an older OS's manager.
That's a simple MS architectural restriction which you either follow (boot W7 from W8, not W8 from W7) or unofficially circumvent (update the older OS with the newer OS's copy of bootmgr)
It's not a choice EasyBCD can make for you, and outside of EasyBCD's purview to make unofficial, unannounced modifications to your OS.
Fair enough, but surely the tool can detect you have the wrong manager >
e.g. allow the pull down to have win 7, win 8, win 8.1 entries.
Look at the bootmgr version and issue a warning ?

THink of it, the end user does not know an issue exists, they use the tool to fix boot.
As a coder myself, my head thinks in terms of what is possible.

regards
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#4
You could be adding an entry to W8's BCD from W7 with the intention of a later switch to booting from W8.
It wouldn't be appropriate for EasyBCD to second-guess you and make a change to your W7 system's bootmgr.
There are too many permutations of possible scenario in a W7/W8.1/W10 triple boot like mine for EasyBCD to guess what I might be doing.
It tries to keep as simple an interface as possible to avoid confusion, but it is (beyond the third button) a power tool which does rely on the end-user stating exactly what he wants to do, and doing precisely that, and no more.
There is an "ideas and wishlists" forum where you can suggest a specific change and the developers will tell you whether it's a possibility or a no-go.
 
Last edited:

mqudsi

Mostly Harmless
Staff member
#6
Just as an FYI, this would be one difference between EasyBCD and Easy Recovery Essentials. EasyBCD is a tool that won't do anything "sneaky" or "magical" without the operator's knowledge and explicit consent, even if it means turning a lemon into a working machine; whereas EasyRE was designed with the exact opposite in mind - take a system and make it work, no questions asked.

Like Terry says, there are valid reasons why one would not want EasyBCD to upgrade outdated BOOTMGR instances, meanwhile booting from EasyRE automatically updates all BOOTMGR copies to a version compatible with all OSes on the PC.
 
#7
Just as an FYI, this would be one difference between EasyBCD and Easy Recovery Essentials. EasyBCD is a tool that won't do anything "sneaky" or "magical" without the operator's knowledge and explicit consent, even if it means turning a lemon into a working machine; whereas EasyRE was designed with the exact opposite in mind - take a system and make it work, no questions asked.

Like Terry says, there are valid reasons why one would not want EasyBCD to upgrade outdated BOOTMGR instances, meanwhile booting from EasyRE automatically updates all BOOTMGR copies to a version compatible with all OSes on the PC.
OK thanks for the info, I will buy a few licenses to evaluate these or wait till we have an issue, and try the trial to see if it fixes it.
In saying this I assume the tool does more than the Microsoft DART tools for win7, 8.1
I find the "recovery" option in the MS tools poor and generally don't fix bcdboot type issues
These tools do offer the CMD prompt to manually try to fix things but this is a painful process.

There are many boot issues which known fixes. There is a gap in the market (that perhaps recovery essentials fixes) to have a big button that says "Fix this"
An end user should be able to nominate a reserve partition or the main C: drive if no reserve partition, then the OS dive and say GO .
Assumes no actual OS corruption. MS changes OSs and boot mechanisms very slowly so the tool should be able to detect the wrong main boot files and perhaps have a facility to refresh its rules from XML file from the vendor.

Regards
 

mqudsi

Mostly Harmless
Staff member
#8
Hi Greg,

That almost perfectly describes both our motivation behind the initial development of EasyRE as well as how we currently see its role in system repair and recovery. If you do get a chance to try EasyRE, I'd love to hear your feedback and suggestions. My email is mqudsi@neosmart.net and you can always reach me here in the forums.