Lost direction to first partition (windows7 up graded to 10)

#1
Hi,
Easybcd created the MBR that has been in place on my pc for some time.
1 drive with 5 partitions.
part1: Win10 (upgrade of win7) primary
part2: Win7 primary
part3: extention
part4: Mint Rafaela extended
part5: swap extended

This setup has been in place for over a half a year and all was ok. Recently part2 got buggered-up and win7 was reinstalled on it. I can no longer get to the first partition. easybcd2.3 was re-run but both drive selections, part1 or part2, reference the newly installed win7 on part2. I can get to win7 or mint but not to win10.
Both win7 boot and mint can see and manipulate files/folders on win10 partition but I can not boot to it.

Not sure what was up I copied the back-up bcd as saved on win10 boot partition to the win7 part and selected easybcd option to read it. It did but replicated the results I first wrote.

I would Like some help.

Thanks,
Keith
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#2
When you install an older Windows after a newer, you will back-level the boot manager. Older boot managers are not capable of loading newer Winload.exe boot loaders (failure to recognize the digital signature as genuine).
You'll need to copy the newer (bigger) bootmgr from W10 to replace the older (smaller) W7 version which will now be in your active partition.
 
#3
When you install an older Windows after a newer, you will back-level the boot manager. Older boot managers are not capable of loading newer Winload.exe boot loaders (failure to recognize the digital signature as genuine).
You'll need to copy the newer (bigger) bootmgr from W10 to replace the older (smaller) W7 version which will now be in your active partition.
OK I did not try to post privately. Win10 doesn't have bootmgr file in root (375kb) as win7 does. It does have same in $Windows.~BT/NewOS/bootmgr (387kb) .The overall structure between the two appears a lot different. If win7 root/bootmgr were replaced with win10's $Windows.~BT/NewOS/bootmgr all will work out? Just don't want to loose windows.
Thanks,
Keith
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#4
Can't tell you if that's the exact size; my system is UEFI and uses a different module, but it sounds about right.
If you get yourself a bootable download of Linux you can burn to a CD and verify that it runs correctly (if slowly) when you boot it in "run from the disc, don't install" mode, you'll have an emergency way to get back to the status quo.
Rename the 375k bootmgr to bootmgr7 (or something of your choice), then copy in the 387k version and reboot, you should find that you can dual-boot again.
The Linux disc can be used to flip the names back if not.
Post back if you get any more problems.
 
#5
Can't tell you if that's the exact size; my system is UEFI and uses a different module, but it sounds about right.
If you get yourself a bootable download of Linux you can burn to a CD and verify that it runs correctly (if slowly) when you boot it in "run from the disc, don't install" mode, you'll have an emergency way to get back to the status quo.
Rename the 375k bootmgr to bootmgr7 (or something of your choice), then copy in the 387k version and reboot, you should find that you can dual-boot again.
The Linux disc can be used to flip the names back if not.
Post back if you get any more problems.
Hi and thanks for your responses. OK I can manipulate drive contents via mint boot (extended part4). Still having doubts/concerns I looked on win7 drive for bootmgr again to find in windows/boot/pcat , also in widows/boot are a larger set of files as those found in c:/boot . Both sets of files are owned by trusted installer. who created c:/boot and c:/bootmgr , easybcd? Is there a pecking order for the boot process? If c:/bootmgr DNE then goto the windows/boot source? I don't know how to look at the bootmgr file with a lot of certainty does it reference absolute paths? should the copy of win10 bootmgr be a link or the physical file?
Thanks for your patients and responces and sorry for my cold feet; I just spent 3 days restoring win7 drive and still have a few linux details to clean-up yet. The win10 drive I'm trying to get back is w/o problems and I can no longer take advantage of a free upgrade from win7.
Thanks,
Keith
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#6
The bootmgr in use is found in the root (C:\bootmgr)
The boot process

1.After pressing the power button, the PC’s firmware initiates a Power-On Self Test (POST) and loads firmware settings. This pre-boot process ends when a valid system disk is detected.
2.Firmware reads the master boot record (MBR), and then starts Bootmgr.exe. Bootmgr.exe finds and starts the Windows loader (Winload.exe) on the Windows "active" partition.
3.Essential drivers required to start the Windows kernel are loaded and the kernel starts to run, loading into memory the system registry hive and additional drivers that are marked as BOOT_START.
4.The kernel passes control to the session manager process (Smss.exe) which initializes the system session, and loads and starts the devices and drivers that are not marked BOOT_START.
5.Winlogon.exe starts, the user logon screen appears, the service control manager starts services, and any Group Policy scripts are run. When the user logs in, Windows creates a session for that user.
6.Explorer.exe starts, the system creates the desktop window manager (DWM) process, which initializes the desktop and displays it.


in step 2, cannot look elsewhere for it; it has only a few bytes of code to achieve the task.

The copies you have found in C:\Windows\boot\PCAT (and the UEFI equivalents in C:\Windows\boot\EFI) are the ones that setup copies into the correct location during installation.
On my PC the W10 version is 391kB and the W7 is 375kB (1122 and 703 for the EFI versions), though W10 contains the previous copy from before my last update to the latest W10 level and that is 388k, (properties shows it as 387k or 397,270 bytes).

Rename the 375k version on C:\ and drag the bigger copy from W10\Windows\Boot\PCAT across into the root of the "active" partition.
It can't be a shortcut, it must be a copy of the actual bootmgr module.
 
#7
The bootmgr in use is found in the root (C:\bootmgr)
The boot process

1.After pressing the power button, the PC’s firmware initiates a Power-On Self Test (POST) and loads firmware settings. This pre-boot process ends when a valid system disk is detected.
2.Firmware reads the master boot record (MBR), and then starts Bootmgr.exe. Bootmgr.exe finds and starts the Windows loader (Winload.exe) on the Windows "active" partition.
3.Essential drivers required to start the Windows kernel are loaded and the kernel starts to run, loading into memory the system registry hive and additional drivers that are marked as BOOT_START.
4.The kernel passes control to the session manager process (Smss.exe) which initializes the system session, and loads and starts the devices and drivers that are not marked BOOT_START.
5.Winlogon.exe starts, the user logon screen appears, the service control manager starts services, and any Group Policy scripts are run. When the user logs in, Windows creates a session for that user.
6.Explorer.exe starts, the system creates the desktop window manager (DWM) process, which initializes the desktop and displays it.


in step 2, cannot look elsewhere for it; it has only a few bytes of code to achieve the task.

The copies you have found in C:\Windows\boot\PCAT (and the UEFI equivalents in C:\Windows\boot\EFI) are the ones that setup copies into the correct location during installation.
On my PC the W10 version is 391kB and the W7 is 375kB (1122 and 703 for the EFI versions), though W10 contains the previous copy from before my last update to the latest W10 level and that is 388k, (properties shows it as 387k or 397,270 bytes).

Rename the 375k version on C:\ and drag the bigger copy from W10\Windows\Boot\PCAT across into the root of the "active" partition.
It can't be a shortcut, it must be a copy of the actual bootmgr module.
Hi,
OK, I was getting another pc to working order (actually just the software in place on 250g drive). I've now swapped disks and in place of this post. I copied the larger bootmgr from the windows 10 upgrade Windows/Boot/PCAT/bootmgr to the windows 7 partition root drive c:/bootmgr.
I do not see any difference after the copy. If I boot to win7 or win10 I get to the lastly installed win7 boot.
These copies were readily made and things can be reverted simply. But there doesn't seem to be a need to revert, no change took place that I witnessed.

Did I miss something that you've written?
Thanks,
Keith
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#8
Can you copy/paste the contents of EasyBCD's "view settings" showing the W7 and W10 entries in your BCD
 
#9
Hi,
OK, I was getting another pc to working order (actually just the software in place on 250g drive). I've now swapped disks and in place of this post. I copied the larger bootmgr from the windows 10 upgrade Windows/Boot/PCAT/bootmgr to the windows 7 partition root drive c:/bootmgr.
I do not see any difference after the copy. If I boot to win7 or win10 I get to the lastly installed win7 boot.
These copies were readily made and things can be reverted simply. But there doesn't seem to be a need to revert, no change took place that I witnessed.

Did I miss something that you've written?
Thanks,
Keith
I want win10 so I took a shot at below:
win10 partition (part1) copied d:\Windows\Boot to d:
copied d:\Windows\Boot\PCAT\bootmgr to d:
This file and folder were never at root d: before
made part1 (win10 part) active in boot manager
re-started

Got Blue screen that read: there is a problem with set up and I think the only option was to shut down.

I used gparted standalone to make win7-part2 boot drive or active in windows terms.

I'm back to my first post - win7 and win10 boot selections boot to win7 , rafalea boots ok

I removed copied files from d: and over wrote bootmgr in c: drive to it's former self. It was a copy of win10's Windows\Boot\PCAT\bootmgr: as suggested in this post.

I don't know what to do so I will wait till there's another direction.

Thanks,
Keith
 
#10
Hi Terry,
I just noticed your request concerning easybcd settings.Deatiled view:
Windows Boot Manager
--------------------
identifier {9dea862c-5cdd-4e70-acc1-f32b344d4795}
device partition=C:
description Windows Boot Manager
locale en-US
inherit {7ea2e1ac-2e61-4728-aaa3-896d9d0a9f0e}
default {87fd0561-56b0-11e6-a1ba-bf679ebd1af6}
resumeobject {87fd0560-56b0-11e6-a1ba-bf679ebd1af6}
displayorder {87fd0561-56b0-11e6-a1ba-bf679ebd1af6}
{87fd0565-56b0-11e6-a1ba-bf679ebd1af6}
{972a7711-5741-11e6-8572-001c238b1d9e}
toolsdisplayorder {b2721d73-1db4-4c62-bf78-c548a880142d}
timeout 7
displaybootmenu Yes

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier {87fd0561-56b0-11e6-a1ba-bf679ebd1af6}
device partition=C:
path \Windows\system32\winload.exe
description Win7
locale en-US
loadoptions DDISABLE_INTEGRITY_CHECKS
inherit {6efb52bf-1766-41db-a6b3-0ee5eff72bd7}
recoverysequence {87fd0562-56b0-11e6-a1ba-bf679ebd1af6}
recoveryenabled Yes
osdevice partition=C:
systemroot \Windows
resumeobject {87fd0560-56b0-11e6-a1ba-bf679ebd1af6}
nx OptIn
pae Default
sos No
debug No

Real-mode Boot Sector
---------------------
identifier {87fd0565-56b0-11e6-a1ba-bf679ebd1af6}
device partition=C:
path \NST\AutoNeoGrub0.mbr
description Mint Rafaela
locale en-US
custom:250000c2 0

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier {972a7711-5741-11e6-8572-001c238b1d9e}
device partition=C:
path \Windows\system32\winload.exe
description Win10
locale en-US
osdevice partition=C:
systemroot \Windows
resumeobject {e014e50e-5751-11e6-bd02-806e6f6e6963}
 
#11
Hi,
Found answer on windows 10 fourm: <cmd> BCDBOOT D:\Windows
It took a little while with a lot of disk i/o but the win10 boot loader has returned.
Thanks,
Keith
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#12
The problem was simple.
Your view settings shows that you pointed both W7 and W10 to the same partition (C) which is why the same OS loaded each time.
Just changing W10's drive to whatever letter W7 sees that partition as would have fixed the problem in no time.
(It doesn't matter what the OS calls itself when it's booted, The letter you see in EasyBCD doesn't actually exist in the BCD (the BCD doesn't contain letters, just UIDs), EasyBCD is translating that letter to and from the UID in the registry table to a human intelligible Disk letter, according to the registry of the currently running system)
i.e. you must tell EasyBCD where W10 is now, according to W7, just as it appears in Explorer.
You told it that both systems were in the same place, so that's where it kept looking.


Incidentally, that's a different problem, quite separate from the initial backlevelling of bootmgr.
If you'd had the correct letter specified, W10 would have started to boot, then failed with "Invalid Digital Signature", which was what I assumed was happening in the absence of detailed information in your OP.
As it happens, it seems you were never getting as far as discovering that, merely finding W7 on "C" every time you thought you were trying to boot W10.
 
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