Windows 7 boot problem(winload.exe) on third partition

[christaras]

hello.


Im searching for accurate steps to my problem so that I wont do anything wrong and not be able to boot.


I have windows 98 as system partition c:\

I have winxp as boot partition d:\

now I made a third partition to install windows 7 as e:\

I did the install outside the xp environment thanks to a tool called plop boot manager which allows you to boot from usb and cd, cause the installation through winxp on the hard drive lacks some settings(about language, disk options etc)


I was on the final step(finishing installation) and the machine rebooted. I saw the win7 boot manager black screen(which has the options earier version of windows for 98 and xp and also the option windows 7).
When i clicked windows 7(it didnt state windows 7 setup but plainly windows 7) I got the message about winload.exe missing or corrupted


I guess the problem is that the boot partition is win xp d:\ and not win7 e:\ where file winload is located e:\windows\system32\winload.exe so it can not be found for booting and finishing installation

easybcd gives me the following info(I cant see d:\)





<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
There are a total of 2 entries listed in the bootloader.

Default: Windows 7
Timeout: 3 seconds
Boot Drive: C:\

Entry #1
Name: Earlier Version of Windows
BCD ID: {ntldr}
Drive: C:\
Bootloader Path: \ntldr

Entry #2
Name: Windows 7
BCD ID: {default}
Drive: E:\
Bootloader Path: \Windows\system32\winload.exe

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

please help me!
trying for days to install win7
I dont want to delete anything or left outside by typing something wrong


thank you!!!

 

[Terry60]

Can you post a screenshot of Disk Management, making sure the columns are wide enough to see all the status flags.

 

[christaras]

Can you post a screenshot of Disk Management, making sure the columns are wide enough to see all the status flags.

Hello.

e:\ is where I tried to install win7. The files are there, still havent deleted them, installation did not finish because of winload.exe. Press upon the image to enlarge.

 

[christaras]

Im sure it has to do with partitions being system,boot,active.

All these terms are confusing since I read that when system partition and boot partition are separate
the system partition contains the boot files and the boot partition contains the system files.
Others said there shouldnt be separate.

We also have the term active partition....


In my case I used partition magic to create a second partition called d:\ and installed winxp on d:\
d:\ with winxp became the boot partition whereas c:\ with windows98 remained the system, active partition

Then I created a third to install win7....


please tell me a way to make win7 bootable finishing installation, without losing access to the other two operating systems on c:\ and d:\ and be blocked from booting. Im not in the mood of installing again, too tired.

 

[Terry60]

Disk Management flags have the following meanings

"boot" = "this is the system you're running"
"system" = "this is where I found the boot files for the currently running system"
"active" (on the first HDD in the BIOS boot sequence) = "this is where I started the search for the boot files"
"active" (on subsequent HDDs in the BIOS boot sequence) ="this is where I will look if I don't find something in the MBR on the first HDD"

Your Entry #1 "Earlier Version..." is XP (the BCD doesn't point to XP, it points to the boot files for XP and they must be on C, it's your only primary partition - Once the BCD chains to ntldr on C, it will read boot.ini (also on C) which is what points to XP on D)

Your W7 install on E probably didn't get as far as you think.
How many times did it reboot during setup ?
If what you think was "the final step" was in fact the first reboot, then that's your problem.
Windows setup needs to reboot to the installation medium many times.
It's important therefore that you ensure in your BIOS boot settings that optical comes before HDD in the boot priority.
That way, when the reboots happen, the process boots from the DVD again and the building of the OS on E will continue under the control of the DVD.
If you don't give DVD priority over HDD, then the 1st reboot will go to the HDD and attempt to boot an OS which hasn't yet finished its building process with an inevitable failure to get any further.
When you insert an installation DVD and it says "press any key to boot from DVD", that's a MS message which is extremely misleading.
You have already booted from the DVD or you wouldn't have seen that message. What it should say, what it actually means is "Do you want to start the installation process from the beginning ?"
When you press any key it will do so and you'll enter the setup process. On subsequent reboots during installation, if you've correctly set the BIOS boot priority, it will return to that message, but you ignore the "press any key" (or it will just start all over again in a never ending loop), and because you take no action it knows it's part way through the setup, and it will carry on from where it left off, eventually ending with a confirmatory message that it has done so.
You don't need Plop, the installation disc is an OS with its own boot loader, and will handle everything itself, provided that it has the highest boot priority in the BIOS.
You can leave the BIOS like that permanently, it has no effect on the boot of your normal PC use, unless and until you deliberately insert a bootable disc into the optical drive before powering up (like a bootable partition manager or a boot repair disc)

 

[christaras]

Disk Management flags have the following meanings

"boot" = "this is the system you're running"
"system" = "this is where I found the boot files for the currently running system"
"active" (on the first HDD in the BIOS boot sequence) = "this is where I started the search for the boot files"
"active" (on subsequent HDDs in the BIOS boot sequence) ="this is where I will look if I don't find something in the MBR on the first HDD"

Your Entry #1 "Earlier Version..." is XP (the BCD doesn't point to XP, it points to the boot files for XP and they must be on C, it's your only primary partition - Once the BCD chains to ntldr on C, it will read boot.ini (also on C) which is what points to XP on D)

Your W7 install on E probably didn't get as far as you think.
How many times did it reboot during setup ?
If what you think was "the final step" was in fact the first reboot, then that's your problem.
Windows setup needs to reboot to the installation medium many times.
It's important therefore that you ensure in your BIOS boot settings that optical comes before HDD in the boot priority.
That way, when the reboots happen, the process boots from the DVD again and the building of the OS on E will continue under the control of the DVD.
If you don't give DVD priority over HDD, then the 1st reboot will go to the HDD and attempt to boot an OS which hasn't yet finished its building process with an inevitable failure to get any further.
When you insert an installation DVD and it says "press any key to boot from DVD", that's a MS message which is extremely misleading.
You have already booted from the DVD or you wouldn't have seen that message. What it should say, what it actually means is "Do you want to start the installation process from the beginning ?"
When you press any key it will do so and you'll enter the setup process. On subsequent reboots during installation, if you've correctly set the BIOS boot priority, it will return to that message, but you ignore the "press any key" (or it will just start all over again in a never ending loop), and because you take no action it knows it's part way through the setup, and it will carry on from where it left off, eventually ending with a confirmatory message that it has done so.
You don't need Plop, the installation disc is an OS with its own boot loader, and will handle everything itself, provided that it has the highest boot priority in the BIOS.
You can leave the BIOS like that permanently, it has no effect on the boot of your normal PC use, unless and until you deliberately insert a bootable disc into the optical drive before powering up (like a bootable partition manage

hello and thanks for the clarifications.

let me give you detailed info.

I have burned two isos with win7 setup so far.

1)installing win7 through winxp environment


when installing win7 through winxp environment, the first win7 dvd stopped on 27%(expanding files) and rebooted. Most of the time it couldnt continue and the message was error, so I thought the installation could be corrupted and downloaded another win7 version which was smaller(32bit english version, 2,3 gb). The first win7 dvd was 3,7gb

In this second version, the reboot was also at 27%(expanding files) and it continued till 100% successfully but the installation stucked on "istalling features" and gave out an error that was like "the setup couldnt set the locale...blabla) It was something about the language...

installing win7 through winxp environment gives you less choices than installing it through its own environment. you cant set the language and you cant format discs if youre already in winxp.


2)installing win7 through its own environment

in that case the 1st phase (copying files) reached 100% instantly and continued with expand files. It successfully passed the phase "installing features" because in the beginning I had set the language to english instead of us(something you cant do if you install it through winxp)...
the first reboot happened at the last phase(finishing installation) and it gave out the error about winload.exe(missing or corrupted)


so the reboots in each case are merely 1-2.


Now about the booting sequence. Im afraid my ibm bios can only boot from diskette and hard disk.
The plop boot manager in the diskette helped me to boot from usb and after some seconds the dvd rom driver was activated to install from the dvd driver.

usb->dvd driver->hard disk

if I press boot from cd right in the beginning, I get error code 5, "cant boot from the cd"



in my windows 98 setup the sequence was
boot diskette first, which had cd rom drivers and enabled the dvd rom driver
and then hard disk where the installation was taking place.

I dont think that dvd rom driver takes control after the first reboot in all windows installions.
I think its diskette-dvd rom driver- hard disk
and after reboot its hard disk-dvd rom driver


Im not sure if thats the case. if you know tell me how to boot from the cd.

I really cant boot from the dvd drive after the reboot of win7 installation, if really thats the problem!

thanks.

 

[christaras]

by the way I dont see any message "press any key to boot from dvd"😕
I have never experienced direct boot from cd or dvd in my pc. The first thing I hear is the noise of the diskette drive and then the hard disk and cd/dvd rom driver.


in plop boot manager I set cdrom as the first in boot sequence and it states
cdboot: cant boot from cd error code 5

 

[christaras]

Can you post a screenshot of Disk Management, making sure the columns are wide enough to see all the status flags.

What a mess! I lost access to win98 and winxp and had to repartition, reformat and reinstall everything...thanks to plop boot manager! Its a very DANGEROUS program! I just pressed 4 to delete it and then 9 to reboot and I got the message about no operating system found! Also fdisk was giving the message about no partitions existing!

Can you please tell me which are the boot files in the system partition in order to write them on diskette and be able to boot next time something tragic happens? Are they hidden. I can see something like boot.bak, dont see any ntldr.

Thanks!

 

[christaras]

Found them. Had to boot from c:\ to see them.
I think they are three. Ntldr, ntdetect, boot.ini
Can I write them on diskette in case a problem appears and I cant boot from hard drive partition?


Also found a huge hidden file called pagefile.sys which was 150mb I think!

 

[christaras]

hey, since the boot files of winxp(d:\) exist in the system partition of windows 98(c:\) shouldnt winload.exe which is the boot file of win7 also exist in c:\ ???


so the boot files of winxp prevent the boot files of win7 of being installed???

 

[christaras]

Terry60 I think I am close to the root of the problem and I will continue to investigate.

Well winxp partition was created with partition magic on windows 98(c:\) which is the system partition containing the winxp boot files(ntldr,ntdetect,boot.ini)

On the other hand I made win7 partition with partition magic on winxp(d:\) which is not a system partition but a boot partition.


Thought that I should make win7 partition while being connected to windows98 and NOT installing win7 while being connected on winxp since winxp is not a system partition but only bootable as win7...


I should take a look if winload.exe is on the system32 file of windows98 on c:\

It could be that win7 have falsely think that d:\ partition of xp is the system.




The boot files of xp(ntldr,ntdetect,boot.ini) are on the root directory of c:\
The boot files of win7(bootmgr,winload,bcd) should be where?
I think I read that a boot folder will be created on root directory c:\ containing bootmgr and bcd
whereas winload willl be on the system32 folder of c:\


lol so I should look my win98 system 32 folder for winload to find there


I ll try a new installation by making again a partition for win7

 

[Terry60]

XP's ntldr is both the boot manager and the boot loader, so must be in the "active" "system" partition along with the other XP boot files you mention, even if that's not the XP partition.
Windows 98 and all other versions prior to XP have no dynamic boot manager. They work on the original stone-age computing principal that the boot code is in a fixed position at the beginning of the disk, hence why DOS based systems must occupy that front slot on the HDD to work at all.
Longhorn OSs (Vista onwards) have split the boot manager and loader functions.
Bootmgr and the \boot folder containing the BCD, like NTLDR, must be in the "active" "system" partition even if that's not where the rest of the OS resides.
The boot loader (winload.exe) is an exception. It always resides with the OS inside the W7 Windows\System32\partition and bootmgr chains to it.
That's where your W7 install failed, bootmgr failing to find it there because setup hadn't finished filling the Windows partitions at the time of the first reboot.
Nothing to do with W7 will be anywhere in the XP partition, and vice versa.
Only the boot files from each can reside elsewhere, and that will always be in whichever partition is found to be "active" when setup runs.

 

[christaras]

XP's ntldr is both the boot manager and the boot loader, so must be in the "active" "system" partition along with the other XP boot files you mention, even if that's not the XP partition.
Windows 98 and all other versions prior to XP have no dynamic boot manager. They work on the original stone-age computing principal that the boot code is in a fixed position at the beginning of the disk, hence why DOS based systems must occupy that front slot on the HDD to work at all.
Longhorn OSs (Vista onwards) have split the boot manager and loader functions.
Bootmgr and the \boot folder containing the BCD, like NTLDR, must be in the "active" "system" partition even if that's not where the rest of the OS resides.
The boot loader (winload.exe) is an exception. It always resides with the OS inside the W7 Windows\System32\partition and bootmgr chains to it.
That's where your W7 install failed, bootmgr failing to find it there because setup hadn't finished filling the Windows partitions at the time of the first reboot.
Nothing to do with W7 will be anywhere in the XP partition, and vice versa.
Only the boot files from each can reside elsewhere, and that will always be in whichever partition is found to be "active" when setup runs.

so what youre saying is that winload.exe will be on the win7 partition and not in the system32 folder in system partition of win98


I think I remember while being on winxp I did a search and found winload.exe in the win7 partition(after the failed installation)


so why can't bootmgr see it and why my installation failed in the first place?


hmm...could it be that the partition was extended/logical and not primary? I have heard people telling that win7 should be installed on a primary partition, but my primary is win98...can you have 2 primary?


also something strange about the unallocated space lol
havent made a third partition yet and what I have right now is win98 primary partition, winxp extended logical and a mention for unallocated space


the funny thin is when I boot in win98(c:\ primary system partition), partition magic program says the unallocated space is 10gb but when I boot in xp(d:\ extended logical boot partition) partition magic program says the unallocated space is 30 gb!

 

[Terry60]

The boot files must be in a primary partition, and so too any OS prior to XP.
From XP onwards, the rest of the OS can be in a logical drive, including the Longhorn Winload.exe.
There's no point in using logical drives though, unless you need five or more partitions.
The IBM architecture on which all (non Apple) PCs were originally based, only allocated four slots in the disk's MBR partition table (HDDs were so small at the time, that nobody envisioned the possiblity of needing more)
When Moore's Law started to produce cheap large disks, the logical drive was a sticking plaster fix to allow more than four partitions, annexing one of the primary MBR slots as an extended partition to chain on to a table of logical drives.
If you only need four or fewer partitions, logical drives are a waste of time and make multi-booting more complex and confusing, just make everything primary.(The "active" flag is a physical bit switch in the MBR partition table. It shows which one (and only one) of the four table entries the BIOS should look in to find the boot sector containing the boot files, i.e. all four partitions can be primary but only one can be "active".)

 

[christaras]

The boot files must be in a primary partition, and so too any OS prior to XP.
From XP onwards, the rest of the OS can be in a logical drive, including the Longhorn Winload.exe.
There's no point in using logical drives though, unless you need five or more partitions.
The IBM architecture on which all (non Apple) PCs were originally based, only allocated four slots in the disk's MBR partition table (HDDs were so small at the time, that nobody envisioned the possiblity of needing more)
When Moore's Law started to produce cheap large disks, the logical drive was a sticking plaster fix to allow more than four partitions, annexing one of the primary MBR slots as an extended partition to chain on to a table of logical drives.
If you only need four or fewer partitions, logical drives are a waste of time and make multi-booting more complex and confusing, just make everything primary.(The "active" flag is a physical bit switch in the MBR partition table. It shows which one (and only one) of the four table entries the BIOS should look in to find the boot sector containing the boot files, i.e. all four partitions can be primary but only one can be "active".)

Thanks for the info my friend!

Finally onto the next screen! I chose primary partition and it was installed!
Im currently on win7, havent rebooted to the other operating systems yet.
Internet seems faster.