Windows 7 RC1 is Out!

mqudsi

Mostly Harmless
Staff member
#21
Weird, 7100 is pretty good for me. Have a problem with Autodesk Inventor 2009, but everything else is fine.
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#22
A rainy Sunday afternoon, so a clear conscience about not being in the garden continuing the spring cleanup that's kept me busy all week.
So here I am, inside build 7100, logged in to NST.
Tried a fresh install with the IR detector unplugged from the TV card, and this time the BSOD changed from the FE (USB_BUG) to a 9F (driver-power-state-failure).
Removed the TV card from the PCI Bus and ran the install with it sitting outside the box.

Finally the install worked without any failures, in the 1/2 hour Mak promised (give or take a few minutes - I was watching some motor racing at the time, so can't be precise).

The install is finally clean. It can shutdown on request without hanging, and WUD is able to auto-reboot as required without needing to be forced.

I'm still disappointed with it (the install - I haven't had time to look round the system yet) because, not only did the TV card completely destroy it, but it has lost the native support of my graphics card and my monitor.

I'm sitting looking at a horrible distorted picture created by the default PnP monitor driver on the default VGA graphics driver. There's no support for my widescreen, only 4:3 resolutions, and auto-updates say "you've got the correct driver".

The ATi site has the driver for this card listed under Vista, but not W7. If I pick it from the list of compatible drivers in the "pick your own" menu of device manager, it refuses to install it because it's "not compatible with this operating system"

Next step is to start-over (I've lost count of how many times I've done this (or tried) now), but this time I'm going to put 7000 back on (that supported everything including the TV card without any fuss) and then try an upgrade Install to 7100 to see it that ends up with a more usable system.
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#24
That's what I was going to try, but a trawl round the Hauppauge forums, shows that this is a hard error with 7100 x64 and the Nova T 500 twin tuner.
Nobody with my TV card can get builds 7067+ to install without removing the TV card.
Some nice person has identified one of the USB drivers which seems to be responsible (misidentifying the card as a USB hub hence all the BSODs, and someone else has tried the 7000-7100 upgrade route without any improvement.
Downgrading the USB driver to the Vista version seems to be a fix though, and MS have been made aware of the problem by all accounts, in pre 7100 builds, so it should really have been included in the list of concerns in the release notes, but didn't make it in.
 

JustinW

Super Moderator
Staff member
#25
Well at least you're not the only one with the problem. I've got a hauppage tuner here too. With others expericing the same issues you're having I'm sure there'll be a update to correct it. Its just a matter of when...
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#26
I just back-levelled the dodgy driver (thanks to Ubuntu's total disregard for Windows permissions/ownerships etc) to the Vista version and instantly my twin tuners are recognized and the drivers downloaded and updated.
Now if I can just get the widescreen working, we'll be on the way to seeing what 7100's all about.
 

JustinW

Super Moderator
Staff member
#27
Great, so the drivers it was installing were betas for W7 I suppose. I saw something somewhere about the built-in drivers actually working and that you should plugin the devices disconnected from the internet cause the drivers on WU were bad, but the pre-included drivers weren't. Anyway, I guess it doesnt matter now :smile:

Still, all this trouble introduced with 7100. MS wants to push W7 out by the end of the year but I think its unrealistic. Its looking a lot like how they had wanted Vista out by holiday 2006 and it still turned out horrible when released a month late.
 
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Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#28
The problem wasn't with the drivers for the TV card. The problem was one of the USB drivers mistaking the TV card for a USB hub (or somesuch), hence all the BSODs referring to USB errors which led me down multiple blind alleys doing install after install with different USB configurations, all to no avail, because it was nothing to do with USB at all.
Even though my TV drivers are now installed, I still can't use the TV because it's now objecting to the lack of Video Memory (It doesn't recognize my graphics card so it's mistakenly under-estimating its capability by using the default VGA driver)
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#29
I've been struggling to get Vista MC working (detailed elsewhere) so W7 took a back seat for a while, but I've come back to it and finally got it working by updating most of the drivers manually and pointing it to I:\Windows\ System32\Driverstore (my Vista partition).
With a full set of Vista drivers it's working again like 7000, with my monitor undistorted and all the hardware recognized by name instead of "generic". (Picking the same drivers from the W7 list failed with "does not support this OS" but it was perfectly happy using the identical drivers from Vista's store !)
W7 MC now has enough video RAM to acknowledge the TV tuners and scanned them both.
I've still got some more sorting to do though. It only found 54 of the 75 channels Vista MC detects, and though it lists them, presents the EPG with the correct program info and selects the channel; it claims that all the channels are "temporarily off-air" with no signal detectable.
But at least I have a working installation to play with and find out what's wrong now.
 
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JustinW

Super Moderator
Staff member
#30
Well Terry, I can finally see the fun you've been having :frowning:

I decided to put the RC in a VM this time. I had it on a physical partition before but I think I'm ready for Ubuntu again.

Just like you it didnt detect and install everything properly like the beta did. I'm doing some updates now. Maybe its the virtual drivers of VBox that W7 doesnt fully support yet? I don't know but aero's not working and WU hasn't found a video driver update yet.

As a security minded person I'm even more worried now. The first user created is an admin rather than a power user with elevated UAC like in Vista, a big downstep back to XP and earlier as the average user would always run as admin. With W7 it looks like they can do it again, totally defeating the purpose of having UAC. I hope its only in this RC and not the final product. Than again, there's no feedback in this release without contacting MS directly...
 

Mak 2.0

Mod...WAFFLES!?!?
Staff member
#31
For the record i was not having a go at anyone at any time. Plus if you think every install i have had of Win7 has been perfect that would be incorrect. I have had more than my fair share of BSOD's and other problems to over come on a daily basis.

But after a format i was able to reproduce the results and everytime it was something I had done. Not something that was the fault of Win7. The same tricks that people used to "make Vista better" dont work in Win7 and actually cause a high amount of instability.

So no my life with Win7 has not all been sunshine and flowers. I have had more bad days then good to be honest. But through it all i never bash the OS for what it truly is. A improvement of the previous generations of OS's from Microsoft.

Even as of the past 24 hours i have spent more time trying to figure out why i have had no less than 15 BSOD's in a hour time span then nothing for 10 days then another 15 BSOD's.

I just choose not to let only the bad be known about my experience. I choose to be positive and think that good things can come from the time spent testing this.
 

JustinW

Super Moderator
Staff member
#32
I'm not trying to be negative about everything, more or less just addressing concern. After posting I realized that UAC does guard against files obtained off the internet/not recognized by MS but not the system utilities like we've seen before with Vista. Its still a bad thing though casue system files could be forged/exploited and no UAC won't be helping to prevent it. I've been optimistic about Windows 7 from the start actually. However, its a bit alarming when a RC product near ready to be released has some problems previous builds didnt exhibit or functionality removed that helped the product.
 
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Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#33
After abandoning attempts to use this OS, because I just can't get anything done with it, I've revisited.
Can anyone using x64 tell me how many Windows Updates they've had applied since the release.
I've only got 27 through WUD in all that time, and I still don't have a working WMC.
Searching the net I've found
Update for Windows 7 Beta for x64-based Systems (KB961367) which claims to fix multiple live TV problems but when I download it it says "not applicable to your system"
I also found
System Update Readiness Tool for Windows 7 Release Candidate (KB947821)
which seems to suggest that there's a problem with W7 not applying valid fixes, but when I apply this - guess what - yes you're right - "not applicable to your system"
Does anyone have a working MC on W7 ?
If so, does your system have the above mentioned fixes ?
 

JustinW

Super Moderator
Staff member
#34
I've got to update mine but I'll see. I know when I was playing around with MC in the beta it appeared to be working anyway...
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#35
That's the annoying thing. The Beta (7000) was the slickest install I've ever encountered. Everything "did what it says on the tin" from the outset. Live TV just worked from the first hour.
I've never got a satisfactorily working 7100 since release, and it took disconnection of the TV card just to stop BSODs and manual regression to the Vista drivers even to get basic functions like graphics card support.
I rather expected a raft of WUD updates to address all of the loss of function between builds, but there's been very little other than Defender updates, and now I seem to be able to find stuff that the system appears to need desperately, but refuses to install.
 

Mak 2.0

Mod...WAFFLES!?!?
Staff member
#36
I have Win7 RTM and a working WMC. I am also using the 64 Bit and have had only 25 Updates. Some of which were installed cause of things i installed. Like .NET 4 Beta Framework, XP Mode and stuff like that.

I have installed about 40 applications and 25 games and have had no problems with my setup. I even got it connected to my XBOX 360 flawlessly.

Hopefully the TV Tuner Drivers will be out soon.
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#37
I should have been more specific Mak, when I said "a working MC" I really meant "live TV on MC". The rest of it works, but I don't really use the rest of it (on Vista either - I use other apps for photo and video. MC just takes too long to start up and the whole sliding menu system is a bit clunky and awkward for my taste)
The nice little startup app that CG gave me makes the Vista live TV portion very useful, but unfortunately that's the bit I can't get to work on W7.
But you, having even fewer updates than me is at least a useful bit of info.
Have you tried the 2nd update link I mention ?
If I remember right, you don't use a TV card do you ?
 

Mak 2.0

Mod...WAFFLES!?!?
Staff member
#38
I dont use a TV Card but i do stream my stuff to my XBOX. It works good for me. The 2nd link posted was for RC Build. I have the RTM Build 7600 running.

Like i mentioned at the end of my last post, it will most likely require a TV Tuner Card Driver update which you wont see till Oct 22nd or so, if the manufacturer even decides to release a update.

I have used every other aspect of WMC. I have at least tested streaming audio and video to another device and streamed back from that device to my PC.

What is the make of the TV Card you use? Maybe i can try to find a fix? Have you searched like the TechNET Forums?

Maybe someone there already found a fix? I think the reason i have less updates is because i have the final build. So some of the patches that you have had applied were coded into my build. I have seen much more stability and compatibility with the final. All of my software works in the final build. Stuff like Daemon Tools and that which gave problems during the Beta and RC now work with just a click of the installer. I have all my programs running without any extra input. The same set of stuff i used in XP and Vista. So the final does have some changes for the better.

They just released the Enterprise RTM Build for a 90 Day trial. I would suggest at least trying that in VM to see how it goes for you.
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#39
It detects and correctly identifies my TV card (Hauppauge Nova t-500 - twin tuner digital) (not during install - that's what BSOD'd, but OK now.)
The problem comes when setting it up. It's not consistent.
I've had it successfully detect and tune channels (though it didn't find all of them), but each detected channel then said "no signal".
Then (like now) I'll boot it up and it's reverted to not having any channels, having previously detected them, and a rescan detects none at all.
I think the problem is probably the second one I linked. I think 7100 has a fatal flaw in WUD that's not properly applying applicable fixes, including the fix for the flaw !
I expect the RTM to have fixed most of these issues (7000 was near-perfect after all), but I'm not a tech-net subscriber. I'll take a look at your link though - thanks for that.
If it's applicable to me - I'll plaster it straight over 7100. It's just sitting there wasting space at the moment.
 

JustinW

Super Moderator
Staff member
#40
Hmm.. they appear to have out a WinTV7 app. Does your tuner work under that? I'd rather use WMC as I'm sure you do as well but maybe it'll start working when you use their app?