XP on IDE, Vista on SATA

#1
Greetings,

Great site you have here. Hopefully, I can contribute soon.

I have built numerous systems of various OS flavors and configurations
over the last 25 years and I admit, Vista has me stumped.

I have XP PRO SP2 on my Drive 0 IDE drive and have had for years.
I need to start using Vista as a test platform for custom software that
I write for various clients. To that end, I bought a second SATA drive
and installed or tried to install Vista Business upgrade edition on it.
All goes well until after the second reboot. Then I get the dreaded
"0xc000000f" error on "windows\system32\winload.exe" and of course the
install is dead. I hit 'ENTER' and then choose XP from the list of OS
choices and the machine boots.

In XP the Vista SATA drive is Drive H. In the Vista repair screen(booted from the DVD)
the SATA drive is C:.

Anyway....... here is my BCD list. If you could point me in the right direction
I would really appreciate it.

Thanks,

John

There are a total of 3 entries listed in the Vista Bootloader.
Bootloader TimeOut: 3 seconds.
Default OS: Microsoft Windows

Entry #1

Name: Earlier Version of Windows
BCD ID: {ntldr}
Drive: C:\
Bootloader Path: \ntldr

Entry #2

Name: Windows Setup Rollback
BCD ID: {cbd971bf-b7b8-4885-951a-fa03044f5d71}
Drive: C:\
Bootloader Path: \$WINDOWS.~BT\Windows\system32\winload.exe
Windows Directory: \$WINDOWS.~BT\Windows

Entry #3

Name: Microsoft Windows
BCD ID: {default}
Drive: H:\
Bootloader Path: \Windows\system32\winload.exe
Windows Directory: \Windows
 

mqudsi

Mostly Harmless
Staff member
#2
Hi alexholz, welcome to NeoSmart Technologies.

This sounds like a problem with the SATA drivers to me.

If you're currently installing it by starting setup from within XP, try to boot from the DVD instead.
If you're booting from the DVD atm, try to start the setup from within XP.
 
#3
CG, thanks for your quick reply!

Unfortunately, when I boot from the DVD, it tells me I
have to install from within XP. Probably, because I'm
using the Business edition upgrade version. I can go to the
'Repair Your Computer' section, but nothing there seems to help.

BTW, ALL the boot info (Boot directory etc.) is on IDE drive 0 (C: in XP.)

I'll keep plugging and let you know if I find the answer. If you think of anything,
let me know........

Thanks Again,

John
 
#4
Addendum:
If I boot from the DVD and Choose 'repair', Vista sees the SATA drive installation
and lists it in the list box of Vista installations. Repairing the startup tells
me it fixed the problem and that the problem was Vista not being able to find the
bootloader. Rebooting gives the same '0xc000000f' error.

Windows XP boots just fine when I choose it from the boot screen.

Motherboard is MSI K8NGM2-FID.

In XP and Vista Repair the drives appear thusly:

XP - 1st IDE drive (partitioned).seen as C: and E:.....Vista Repair - C: and G:
XP - 2nd IDE drive (partitioned).seen as F: and G:.....Vista Repair - E: and H:
XP - 1st SATA drive(data)........seen as D:............Vista Repair - F:
XP - 2nd SATA drive(Vista).......seen as H:............Vista Repair - D:
XP - DVD Drive...................seen as I:............Vista Repair - I:

In Vista Repair there is also a drive called Boot(X:smile: - undoubtedly a RAM drive

Thanks,

John
 

mqudsi

Mostly Harmless
Staff member
#5
Try (from XP) Diagnostics | Repair BCD Data
 
#6
Thanks,

Are you talking about Diagnostics in EasyBCD?
I don't see Repair BCD Data, I see Reset BCD Storage
and Recreate missing /deleted boot files. Down Below
there is Miscellaneous Recovery with other options.

John
 

mqudsi

Mostly Harmless
Staff member
#7
Reset is the one you want :smile:
 
#8
Didn't work, EASYBCD crashed

CG,

EasyBCD crashed when I used the Reset BCD Storage...
'profuse apologies, gotta close etc.'

It mangled the BCD file in the process.

Left it with these entries:
'unknown' for the device partition for {bootmgr},
'deleted partition/' for the Vista partitiion,
NO entry at all for XP, none... not any!
Luckily, I kept a backup.

Now what.......?

Thanks,

John
 

mqudsi

Mostly Harmless
Staff member
#9
OK, one sec - I'll upload a new build just now.
 

mqudsi

Mostly Harmless
Staff member
#10
http://neosmart.net/forums/showthread.php?t=642

Try the "Reset BCD Data" in this build.

Resetting the data deletes the BCD data, and only adds a single entry to boot into Windows Vista - hence your missing XP entry. You're then supposed to re-add whichever you need on your own.

The only thing that didn't make sense was the crash and the unknown partition, EasyBCD should have taken care of those :S
 
#11
No crash - but still not right

CG,

I downloaded the new EasyBCD and tried the Reset BCD storage.
It didn't crash, but it did ask me:

Which drive was Vista on?
I selected H:
When it finished, it told me it couldn't figure out
where the boot drive was and could I please tell it.
I selected C:

When I checked the entries it had the Vista partition
listed as 'Deleted Partition\'.

I fixed it with 'change settings' (H:smile: and I also added XP
back with add/delete and made it the default.

There must be something incorrect/unexpected with my setup
for this to be such a problem.

I'll keep digging.......

Thanks,

John
 

mqudsi

Mostly Harmless
Staff member
#12
No, I don't think so.
Sounds like a bug to me.

Anyway, did this fix it?
 
#13
Starting Over

CG,
I formatted the H: drive and started over.....
And the answer is............
On the second reboot of the install it stops (again)
with the '0xc000000f' error on \windows\system\winload.exe.
This time it added to the existing entries in BCD. None of the
Vista added entries would boot. Not even the new 'Earlier Version
of Windows'. My XP entry that I manually added (see previous post)
booted XP just fine. upon booting XP, I get a message 'This version
of Windows could not be installed.......make sure it's compatible
etc. etc.' Upgrade Advisor gives me a clean bill of health everytime.

**** Contents of My BCD ************
**** Only #5 would actually boot - note 'deleted partition\'
**** in entries #1 and #4 ******************

There are a total of 5 entries listed in the Vista Bootloader.
Bootloader TimeOut: 3 seconds.
Default OS: Microsoft Windows Vista

Entry #1

Name: Earlier Version of Windows
BCD ID: {ntldr}
Drive: Deleted Partition\
Bootloader Path: \ntldr

Entry #2

Name: Microsoft Windows Vista
BCD ID: {default}
Drive: H:\
Bootloader Path: \Windows\system32\winload.exe
Windows Directory: \Windows

Entry #3

Name: Windows Setup Rollback
BCD ID: {cbd971bf-b7b8-4885-951a-fa03044f5d71}
Drive: C:\
Bootloader Path: \$WINDOWS.~BT\Windows\system32\winload.exe
Windows Directory: \$WINDOWS.~BT\Windows

Entry #4

Name: Windows Vista
BCD ID: {e8709fb6-fa5f-11db-be4d-e219ece5282e}
Drive: Deleted Partition\
Bootloader Path: \Windows\system32\winload.exe
Windows Directory: \Windows

Entry #5

Name: Microsoft Windows
BCD ID: {17ab77e4-1cc9-11dc-8395-001617460e10}
Drive: C:\
Bootloader Path: \ntldr


Thanks,

John
 

mqudsi

Mostly Harmless
Staff member
#14
I just tested this in a virtual machine, and I couldn't replicate the "deleted partition" thing. *sigh*

This is looking less and less like a bootloader problem.


OK, this NG thread seems to describe your problem: http://forums.techarena.in/showthread.php?t=517606

OK, Taz found the solution to this (look for the message: "Winload.exe FIX -
For me anyway" posted elsewhere in this newsgroup).

Simply put, my second harddrive was invisible to the BIOS (but not to
Windows XP). Once I put it into the BIOS, then Vista installation completed,
and I had a working dual boot system...

Thanks, Taz...

- Geoff Coupe

There're a dozen posts in that thread, and all of them seem to have the same SATA/PATA combination you do.
Apparently Windows Vista is so bad it cannot even communicate with the BIOS half-as-well as XP did. Go figure.

So, go into your BIOS, go to the disk configuration page, and make sure that the BIOS sees the Vista drive.

Do you have updates for your BIOS available? Download and install the latest version.


Going by that thread of reasoning, it explains pretty much everything we've seen happen in EasyBCD. While XP can see these drives, to the Vista bootloader, they don't exist.

"The Wow" experience my ass!
 
#15
WOW Indeed

CG,

Thanks so much for your help in this matter.

The BIOS sees the SATA drive and always has.
My BIOS is correct for Vista.

At one point, I changed the boot order to make the SATA
drive the default boot drive. Got 'No OS' error on boot from
the bootloader. I put everything back the way it was and got
the '0xc000000f' error again.

During install, if you watch carefully, you'll see that the first reboot
is coming from 'Windows Setup' which is on the C: drive. The second
reboot is trying to boot from the SATA drive where Vista is actually
loaded and fails as I have related.

Once install fails, it looks as if Vista is crippled enough for the
installer and EasyBCD to see it as a 'deleted partition\.'

Booting from the DVD and choosing 'Repair your Computer' does see the
SATA drive with Vista on it. It lists it in the list box of Vista installations
it has found. It shows it as being on drive D:.

Could this be a problem with Drive location or lettering? If I move the drive
to SATA 0 intead of SATA 1 would that make a difference? I suppose I
could give in and move everything from my E: partition on IDE 0
to the new drive. I could then install Vista on E:. I would love to be
able to solve the SATA problem, but I need to move forward with testing.
A little more messing with this and then on to other things.

WOW indeed!!! I can't wait for the Longhorn server OS.

I see a rich future for hardware manufacturers,IT consultants and Linux or Mac migrations.

And thanks for your great utility!! I see endless opportunities for your company
in this mess.

Thanks,

John
 
#16
Well... SATA 0 was a bust

SATA 0 was worse than SATA 1.
Same error but..............
Install didn't bother to add 'Previous Version of Windows'.
I still had my XP entry that I had manually added earlier,
so I was able to boot.

Sidenote: I noticed that my McAfee Virus protection in XP is dead as
a hammer suddenly. Can't get it to work. Vista related.......??
If so....... that is incredibly unfriendly.

Thanks,

John
 
#17
Success!!! But not on a SATA drive

CG,

After moving partitiions and files with Maxtor's MaxBlast Utility,
I installed Vista on the second partition of my Boot drive - IDE 0.

I am now on the initial boot screen.....

At some point I would like to revisit the SATA install. I will continue
to visit this forum and weigh in when I can be useful.

Thank you for all your help,

Thanks,

John
 

mqudsi

Mostly Harmless
Staff member
#18
Thanks John.. We were indeed originally planning EasyBCD for people migrating to Vista from XP, but now the need for Vista -> OS X/Linux/BSD/Anything else is just as strong - if not more so, at least as far as we can see.

Anyway, how about this:

Change the drive order either physically inside the case or in the BIOS so that you get the OS not found message. At this point, attempt to boot from the DVD and start Vista setup.

Does that maybe (hopefully!!!!) help?

Good luck!

Edit:

I only just read your posts on the second page. I'm glad you got Vista to install in the end, and if whenever you feel like tackling this again, we'll be here :smile:

I'd probably wait for SP1 (sometime later this side of Christmas, hopefully), which should (again, hopefully) address this and other issues.

Windows Longhorn Server is just as bad as Vista. It's not like XP vs. 2003, where 2003's kernel was a million times faster, better, and more reliable than Windows XP RTM - it's the same kernel with programs removed and different programs added. Network and general I/O performance is just as poor, though the programs and various utilities are definitely quite nifty.