Tri-boot (Vista, XP, Wubi Ubuntu 8.10) problem [SOLVED]

#41
The mbr entry simply points at the boot loader for the default OS and where the boot loader for that is located at the very small space at the front of any drive. The copy of the boot.ini file on the other hand points out which partition has the actual XP installation on using the copies of the ntldr and ntdetect.com files to see XP load when selected.
Right...I understand that part now (thanks to u!). :smile:
For labeling while in Windows you would simply right click on the drive while in any explorer window or in the MyComputer to select properties and the general tab where you simply type in a name. The image here will show how that looks while in Vista. XP sees basically the same.
Ok, i have renamed the drive the the EMBR is on (simply naming it EMBR). Unfortunately, though, that is the only one that i can label that way, because the rest of my partitions don't show up in "Computer" (as its called in Vista), due to whatever reason. See my attached screenshot to understand what i mean.

As far as the partition numbering that remains the same despite reformatting the original recovery partition to see that converted to a Fat volume and the second new one being NTFS there. The Fat is still partition #1 with the new NTFS seen as partition #2. VIsta is still the 3rd while labeling the MS partitions whether Fat or NTFS done probaby best in XP for the Fat volumes will clean things up a bit.
The one that is a Fat 16 partition (i.e. the first partition of my hard drive) is not the one that was originally a recovery partition...its a 64 MB partition on which is stored the EMBR (extended master boot record used by BootIT NG). The recovery partition is my second partition on my hard disk, and that is the one that was "unallocated space" before i changed it to a NTFS partition.

Anyway, thanks for clearing that up, and i'll try to get the other screenshot (the one of Gparted) to you later today.

Cheers! :smile:

Addendum:

You seem very confused Coolname, about how dual booting works. Talking about putting XP or boot.ini in the MBR etc ???!!!
I suggest you have a read of this excellent guide, so that you have a better understanding of exactly what you're trying to achieve.

(btw. IPL = Initial Program Loader I'm an ex-IBMer. We never said "boot the system" we always said "IPL it"
Yes, i am a little confused... >.< I am learning a lot though, as the days go by, about how it works. Special thanks to u 3 for taking the time to explain some of the processes...i.e. what the entries in the MBR do, and so forth.

Anyway, thanks for the link. I'll be sure to check it out. As for the IPL thing....thanks! Although i happened to have learned what it meant, earlier yesterday, by googling it...

Cheers! :smile:
 

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#42
Ok...as promised, here's the updated Gparted screenshot. Note, however, that it only shows the XP partition because i put XP in the MBR before booting in the Live session. Once i booted into Vista again, XP, as always, got thrown out of the MBR! :lol:

EDIT: notice that i labeled each one in this screenshot of Gparted...so u can now see which partition is which! Cheers!

Addendum:

Ok...as promised, here's the updated Gparted screenshot. Note, however, that it only shows the XP partition because i put XP in the MBR before booting in the Live session. Once i booted into Vista again, XP, as always, got thrown out of the MBR! :lol:
 

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#43
Alright...i've finally managed to successfully upload the screenshot! :smile:

Hopefully it will help...

Cheers.
 
#44
You now have unallocated drive space seen between the ubuntu root and XP primary that wasn't seen before. If you intend to create another partition in that space the boot.ini file will then have to see rdisk(0)partition(6) rather then #5. On most systems besides setting up a dos type boot loader at the beginning of the drive any version of Windows is seen on the first primary even when dual or triple booting since Windows favors that.

If you weren't intending to add another partition in the space now seen then you ended up moving the XP primary towards the rear of the drive leaving a new gap. You may want to first decide just where you want things to remain rather then simply making constant changes. You'll find it will be a lot easier on you as well as anyone trying to offer help.
 
#45
You now have unallocated drive space seen between the ubuntu root and XP primary that wasn't seen before. If you intend to create another partition in that space the boot.ini file will then have to see rdisk(0)partition(6) rather then #5. On most systems besides setting up a dos type boot loader at the beginning of the drive any version of Windows is seen on the first primary even when dual or triple booting since Windows favors that.

If you weren't intending to add another partition in the space now seen then you ended up moving the XP primary towards the rear of the drive leaving a new gap. You may want to first decide just where you want things to remain rather then simply making constant changes. You'll find it will be a lot easier on you as well as anyone trying to offer help.
I figured u were going to say that! :lol: Yes, that is what Gparted and Vista Disk Management read my NTFS (former recovery) partition as...but it is indeed a partition, formatted as NTFS! I'll try to take a picture of what BootIT NG shows with a digital camera...:wink:

As for the partition 6 thing...i had already thought of that as well. But when i tried it, i got an error message again trying to boot into it. I got the message meaning that the partition did not exist... :glare:

As for the unallocated space at the back of the drive...i'm going to expand the BootIT NG partition, so as to get it out of the way, so my setup will be less confusing.

Thanks.

EDIT: oh..and before u ask, the BootIT NG partition is right after the XP partition (as shown in BootIT NG), and right before the unallocated space at the back of the drive.
 
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#46
Here's a pic of BootIT NG...i'll let it speak for itself. :wink:

Cheers! :smile:
 

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#47
What I am referring to there is what is seen in the screen you took while using GParted showing three separate gaps of unallocated drive space. two of those are seen right before and after the XP Fat type primary.

First 9.77gb follows the Fat16 EMBR which you are saying is now seeing an NTFS volume there. Are you booting with a live cd or running GParted off of the drive? The live cd releases would usually show an active NTFS partition.

That's the awkward part of this since it would also show something following XP as well. But with those two gaps now seeing any partition type using the gaps that still places XP on the number #6 according to the screen you posted. Without any that would partition #4 instead. I'm just wondering if BootIT NG isn't taking you for a spin.

We just missed each other's post there. The 8mb size is too small to be seen as any partition while using a partitioning tool like GParted. The swap partition however should have been seen in the screen you took earlier when using GParted there. Instead that still showed unallocated drive space whete BootIT is reporting something else entirely.
 
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#48
What I am referring to there is what is seen in the screen you took while using GParted showing three separate gaps of unallocated drive space. two of those are seen right before and after the XP Fat type primary.

First 9.77gb follows the Fat16 EMBR which you are saying is now seeing an NTFS volume there. Are you booting with a live cd or running GParted off of the drive? The live cd releases would usually show an active NTFS partition.

That's the awkward part of this since it would also show something following XP as well. But with those two gaps now seeing any partition type using the gaps that still places XP on the number #6 according to the screen you posted. Without any that would partition #4 instead. I'm just wondering if BootIT NG isn't taking you for a spin.
HUH? :wtf: I'm sorry, but i did not follow all of that...

What i was simply pointing out with the picture of BootIT NG, is that what the second partition of the drive BootIT NG sees is a NTFS partition, Gparted shows as "unallocated space"....i don't understand exactly why this is. Perhaps its because Gparted can only read partitions (as such) when they have somthing on them (my "Recovery" partition doesn't), and can not recognize them even as partitions when they're not occupied by anything...as mine is not.:nerd:

Cheers! :smile:

EDIT: of course the different sizes of the same partition (i.e. one size shown in BootIT NG, and the other in Gparted) shown by the two programs is a bit misleading...but i am quite certain that is the same partition...
 
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#49
GParted can usually see any partition once created even by another drive tool or program. Each partition once real will see some information tucked away on it out of view. That wouldn't be anything like the files you would later copy onto it. But a valid partition still sees something there.
 
#50
We just missed each other's post there. The 8mb size is too small to be seen as any partition while using a partitioning tool like GParted. The swap partition however should have been seen in the screen you took earlier when using GParted there. Instead that still showed unallocated drive space whete BootIT is reporting something else entirely.
Sorry...missed ur last edit. :wink:

Ok, so let me explain why the swap partition wasn't showing in the screenshot of Gparted...I replaced (deliberately, knowing that it would revert back to its former state when booting into Vista) the swap partition entry in the MBR with XP before going in the Live session. I did this in order to show that the XP partition did exist (since y'all were claiming it didn't...no reflection on anybody, though!:wink:). I could easily go to Gparted again, and take a another screenshot, this time with the swap partition still in the MBR, and so naturally, it would show up in Gparted...

As for the 8 MBs...i'm not sure exactly what ur referring to, if you'll pardon my ignorance! :wink:

There is a 8 MB partition (for BootIT NG) below the XP partition...as u can tell from the BootIT NG pic that i gave...

Cheers!

Addendum:

GParted can usually see any partition once created even by another drive tool or program. Each partition once real will see some information tucked away on it out of view. That wouldn't be anything like the files you would later copy onto it. But a valid partition still sees something there.
hmm...it that case, i don't understand why BootIT NG shows it, and Gparted doesn't...>.< Maybe the two programs r not compatible with each other?

Anyway, thanks for all the replies, and i just want you to know that i really appreciate all the help! I really didn't/don't mean to take up all ur time...
 
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#51
You had already mentioned earlier that the ubuntu root seen in GParted as well proceeded the XP primary there. The question now is which partition number will see XP load when selected in the Vista boot menu since the two programs are showing two different things as far as what should be partition #2 and the swap partition following the ubuntu root.

You should try #6 to see if what BootIT reports as far as the new NTFS partition #2 and swap partitions are actually present and then changing that to #4 if XP doesn't boot. Since the 8mb partition follows the XP Fat primary you wouldn't add that to the partition count anyways as far as the boot.ini file is concerned. GParted however should be seeing the two proceeding XP there if you are using a multiple OS release and not strictly one used for Linux only.
 
#52
You had already mentioned earlier that the ubuntu root seen in GParted as well proceeded the XP primary there. The question now is which partition number will see XP load when selected in the Vista boot menu since the two programs are showing two different things as far as what should be partition #2 and the swap partition following the ubuntu root.

You should try #6 to see if what BootIT reports as far as the new NTFS partition #2 and swap partitions are actually present and then changing that to #4 if XP doesn't boot. Since the 8mb partition follows the XP Fat primary you wouldn't add that to the partition count anyways as far as the boot.ini file is concerned. GParted however should be seeing the two proceeding XP there if you are using a multiple OS release and not strictly one used for Linux only.
Just tried 4. It didn't work either...i got the error message meaning that i got the wrong partition number again! So i guess we can mark off the following partition numbers, as being the correct one: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 (since i've already tried that one either earlier today, or yesterday...i don't remember which because my head is spinning right now from all the incorrect numbers...)

It appears as if my problem is still not resolved...:lup:
 
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JustinW

Super Moderator
Staff member
#53
Maybe its time to start with a clean slate here. XP --> Vista --> Ubuntu than repair Vista bootloader with startup repair or use EasyBCD if there is an entry in grub added to boot Vista.
 
#54
With all number tried did you see the edit overwrite the previous each time? Once you make a change in the boot.ini file you bring the File option seen on menu bar and the dropdown menu in NotePad to select the "save as" option there followed by using the "all file" option for the "save as file" selector for the popup browser window to see the changed copy overwrite the current one.

The other problem if VIsta is boot up normally would be not seeing the other two ntldr and ntdetect.com files present on the Vista primary itself but only the boot.ini file. Or the entry made in EasyBCD itself was incorrect there. You'll have to look over the View Settings screen to verify that is correct as well.

I could have suggested that all along but was trying to see if coolname007 could work it out since he wants to preserve the present installations. As for the rest of us we would simply start fresh to see either Vista or XP on the first primary while VIsta seems to favor being on the first to later see XP added in intended to replace XP as the newer version.
 
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#55
With all number tried did you see the edit overwrite the previous each time? Once you make a change in the boot.ini file you bring the File option seen on menu bar and the dropdown menu in NotePad to select the "save as" option there followed by using the "all file" option for the "save as file" selector for the popup browser window to see the changed copy overwrite the current one.

The other problem if VIsta is boot up normally would be not seeing the other two ntldr and ntdetect.com files present on the Vista primary itself but only the boot.ini file. Or the entry made in EasyBCD itself was incorrect there. You'll have to look over the View Settings screen to verify that is correct as well.

I could have suggested that all along but was trying to see if coolname007 could work it out since he wants to preserve the present installations. As for the rest of us we would simply start fresh to see either Vista or XP on the first primary while VIsta seems to favor being on the first to later see XP added in intended to replace XP as the newer version.
Yeah...i saved it every time, using "Save" though, not "Save as". It seems though it would automatically overwrite the file each time anyway...and every time i open it, after having made changes and saved it, the changes that i made r staring me right in the face! :lol:

And i also have the other 2 XP boot files in Vista, in the same folder as boot.ini (namely C:\), if that's what ur getting at...

EDIT: as for starting afresh...i've already installed XP twice on the same computer, and don't want to reinstall it, if i don't have to...
 

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#56
I hope you didn't end up breaking something in Windows with the BootIT tool since that was never intended for use with either version of Windows. The three files should be seen at the "C:\" root directory 1there and not copied into any folder.

Here once one thing was pointed out about seeing Linux added into a working dual boot of the two versions here ubuntu 8.10 64bit loads right up when selected. You first need to see a working dual boot of XP with Vista however to then see ubuntu simply added in. You still have the option of replacing BootIT with Grub installed on the root since that will work best with the EasyBCD tool's NeoGrub.
 
#57
I hope you didn't end up breaking something in Windows with the BootIT tool since that was never intended for use with either version of Windows. The three files should be seen at the "C:\" root directory 1there and not copied into any folder.

Here once one thing was pointed out about seeing Linux added into a working dual boot of the two versions here ubuntu 8.10 64bit loads right up when selected. You first need to see a working dual boot of XP with Vista however to then see ubuntu simply added in. You still have the option of replacing BootIT with Grub installed on the root since that will work best with the EasyBCD tool's NeoGrub.
So BootIT NG was never intended for use with either version of Windows? See: [FONT=&quot]http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/downloads/bootitng.pdf

Go to page 6...the section titled "Create a Windows XP/Vista startup disk"...:booyah:

Cheers.:wink:

EDIT: or simply type in Vista or XP in the "Find" bar of the manual, and you'll soon see that it is indeed intended for XP or Vista, as well as other OSes...
[/FONT]
 
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#58
I tried it some time back while working with XP and 98 and tossed it later simply going with GParted. So far I've never seen one problem using the live versions for partitioning with working results each time.

For some reason this isn't the tool for you there since you are simply not getting any further along. It could be from an incomplete or simply bad install but GParted should readily display all partitions unless you saw a bad copy of that downloaded.
 

Terry60

Knows where his towel is.
Staff member
#59
Going back to your post #24, you have 4 primary partitions.
That's the absolute limit for windows based systems. They can't see any more than 4 partitions.
If you want more than 4 portions of HDD, you have to make number 4 an extended partition, and then create logical disks inside the extended partition.
That's why the other space shows as unallocated.
If you use another tool that can see things inside that space, it's still not going to be visible to the Vista boot.
If you have one HDD and no extended partition, then XP will have to be rdisk(0) partition(1 through 4) in boot.ini.
The only way partition (>4) can exist legitimately in boot.ini, is if you have an extended partition and a series of internal logical disks.
 
#60
You can only have four primary type partitions while extended partitions are still seen even in the Disk Management tool for XP and Vista alike. If you go back to Post #35 and look at the first drive(ide-Linux only) you will see the cursor on the ubuntu root partition #2 with the extended swap partition right next to it there(partition #3).

In XP the next screen here will show the same thing for the DM tool in that version.



Now take a look at how those appear while booted from the live ubuntu cd not off of the ide drive for seeing how drives are seen.



What I was trying to point out is that BootIT seems to be displaying partitions that may not even be there. A live ubuntu cd will easily confirm if they were actually created since you can access Fat16/32 and NTFS partitions as well as VFat types.

For closer clearer view click on image here.

 
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