Windows Vista has a new color-management/profiling format called Windows Color Systems. It purports to offer advanced color management and better results than the age-old (and forever dying) ICC/ICM color system. ICC has been buggy the whole way, with both political and technical issues plaguing its colorful history.
Windows Color Systems is a step in the right direction, but it comes at a very heavy price: Windows Vista no longer properly interfaces with ICC/ICM color profiles!
Anyone using the ATi Catalyst Control Center, BasicColor, ColorEye, Spyder, or any of dozen other color-management and gamma-correction programs available will have noticed the bug we're talking about: once you lock your PC (winkey+L) the gamma LUT on your graphics card is reset.
ICC/ICM profiles have two different "parts" to them. The first is a color-correction section which "maps" the colors produced by the video card to match the correct color output as defined by your monitor. "Blue" on your monitor may be different from the "blue" on your mother's - that's what the monitor-calibration and gamma-correction software seeks to fix. Once you "regulate" the colors on your PC, you're using the "real" blue, one that the color industry has reached a consensus over.
The second section of the ICC regulates the gamma output. In order to make certain colors match up, the gamma (more or less the amount of black/bright your display shows) is modified to tally-up with the correct settings. With properly-calibrated monitors, an image will display (almost) exactly the same - with the same hues, midtones, and shades; with the same brightness; and the same overall effect. Gamma plays a very important part in this, regulating the highly-varying brightness/contrast settings on monitors to produce the same image in the end.
With Windows Vista, when you first load an ICC profile, the correct color and gamma settings are applied. But when you lock the screen, log off, or do a bunch of other things, the gamma LUT is reset. The correct colors are still applied, but depending on your configuration your display might now be a garishly bright hue of green or blue!!
There is no fix, at least none that we can see. We've tried to apply the ICC profile to both the local account and the default system settings, we've disabled UAC and formatted and reformatted. We've tried it on nVidia and ATi, and it always happens: when you lock the PC, your gamma table is reset.
Microsoft has not yet acknowledged this issue (as a quick search for "gamma" or "ICC" in the Microsoft knowledge-base will reveal), but there is a workaround (though a poor one). The freeware DisplayProfile utility (donate to help cover hosting costs!) will show you a list of available ICC profiles and let you switch between them on the fly, but more importantly, it will also apply the gamma table settings as well.
DisplayProfile is a standalone executable. Just run it and select a profile other than the one you want to use, then switch back to the real profile in order to re-apply the gamma LUT settings. Just stick it in your quicklaunch toolbar, and whenever you unlock your PC run it to reset the gamma settings.
Hopefully Microsoft will address this issue with Windows Vista SP1 later this year. Until then, thank God for freeware!
Thanks for your help; however the link for DisplayProfile doesn't seem to be working. It redirects to "http://hpcolorsupport.com/aps/installer/displayprofile-en.zip" and then gives a 404. Can you help me out? Thanks.
Seems they've pulled the download. I'll see if I can't mirror it somewhere :)
Thank heavens I found this blog article, I'm currently being driven mad by Vista on one laptop resetting the LUT after sleep/lock/UAC and finding hardware calibrator useless. Still haven't found a stable solution so have drawn the same conclusion, a bug in Vista or graphic driver implementation.
Andrew, are you using nVidia or ATi?
Arthur I wish is was using either of those. This is happening on a Sony VAIO laptop using an on-board Intel GMA950 graphics processor.
Hmm... Andrew, that's one of the most "un-buggy" drivers out there, ATM - at least in our experience. The Intel drivers are pretty cleanly written (and open-source for peer-review)... To be brutally honest: they don't do much, so it's not too hard to write them right ;)
In that case it seems to be more likely a Vista bug than not.
That's what I thought Computer Guru given how common the Intel GP is. I guess we can all live in hope that MS will take a peek under Visat's hood to see what's going on...
There's been a lot of to-do regarding Vista's propensity to kick out the user's active color profile on certain system events. This issue certainly has bugged the hell out of me.
I've found that plugging in or removing a USB device, opening Outlook 2007, having the Windows UAC dialog displayed, and several other various system events will cause the whole color profile to get whacked. I'm running Vista Home Premium on a Toshiba Dynabook, with a Mobile Intel graphics card - fairly run-of-the-mill.
I've found a short-term solution that seems to work well enough for now. at least in the short term until the color management features of Vista itself are properly corrected. I'm now using Huey, a color calibration USB tool that has an automatic room lighting calibration background utility. Even if various events in Vista do clobber the calibration, I've found that you can set Huey's room lighting recalibration for as short an interval as every 10 seconds, and the color settings are recalibrated without any need for constant user supervision and intervention. It seems to be working well enough for now, and at least saves me the trouble of having to stupidly reset the color profile myself (doi!) every time Vista whacks it into la-la land :8
Incidentally, the LUT and color management issues on Vista are getting to be a big problem for a lot of people. Not only on this blog, but also on Adobe forums there has been some to-do about simialr issues with Adobe Gamma. I've also found several other people complaining about the problem through a Google search as well. I hope that someone at Microsoft is listening - there are apparently a lot of unhappy graphic designers and gamers out there who found out about this the hard way.
I have headache with settings gamma on vista and multiple monitors. Once I tried powerstrip (annoying 5sec startup) and then RivaTuner.
Rivatuner v2.04 has feature of gamma settings. So install riva tuner, set gamma to default and check "set this value on startup". (Or you can do this manually everytime vista set their gamma)
Yeah, but that's such a headache!
I never had a problem designing on Windows, even when all my friends literally begged me to move to Mac - but this really has me going up the wall... I shouldn't have to so anyhting at all to make my gamme settings stick.... should I?????
I'm sorry, I really am, but what kind of crap OS is this, anyway!?!?!
If anyone can find a copy of DisplayProfile, we'll host it here....
OK, I finally found a copy of this file.
NeoSmart Technologies Mirror: http://neosmart.net/downloads/miscellania/DisplayProfile.zip
Has this been resolved? I'm having this problem on a Compaq with an Intel 945GM express. DisplayProfile.exe doens't let me change profiles, just gives an error message--there are multiple profiles to choose from but I can't change to any of them. Are there any other workarounds?
Hmmmm, try running it as Administrator?
I had UAC off so I don't know if it actually needs Admin rights.
I'll give that a shot... it's not my computer, and I'm not so great at Vista yet, so it didn't occur to me to check.
OK, running as Administrator doesn't help, either (but good thought!). I still get a pop-up that says "Error -XXXX" when I try to switch (I forgot the number, sorry, but I don't think it would be that informative).
Incidentally, none of the profiles that were there had an asterisk after them which would seem to indicate that they contained a gamma table tag.
I tried installing a new color profile as detailed here: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/933845/en-us , but that didn't appear on the list, and for all I know could have been something else entirely.
I also tried looking around at the color profiles by opening the "Color Management" configuration utility, but I'm pretty far out of my league here, so I was hesitant to go around switching defaults and whatnot. Plus, if it truly is a semi-hardware thing (i.e. the lut getting switched on the card) then I doubted that any of that would work.
I've also looked around on the internet but haven't found anything other than references to this article. (And of course there's nothing in the MS KB, as you said.) I'm truly grateful that there are people like y'all who notice and think about these rare and arcane bugs.
Do you have any more ideas?
Well, the UAC didn't work, but thanks for the suggestion. Any other ideas? (I had a longer post, but it was flagged as spam--maybe an admin can post it for me? Sorry!)
And thanks for your help!
Hmmm..
They need to have asterisks after them to be of any use, so I don't know.
Actually, I'm a bit confused here: If none of your profiles have an asterisk after them, I'd assume you wouldn't experience this bug in the first place because there isn't anything to get reset - they're all "blank" gamma profiles, so to speak; so your LUT is also empty, and therefore, not really at any risk.
Can you describe your problem in greater detail?
Make sure you're using the latest version of the video card drivers, though I don't know if it'll make a difference.
Ack! Perhaps I have a different problem then and have been barking up the wrong tree this whole time. The symptoms are the same: one day (not sure what the immediate circumstances were) the colors got all out of whack and acquired a rather garish blue tint to them. The video driver was the first thing I tried, of course, but it had no effect. After much googling this was the only possibility I've come up with, as there seem to be no known issues with any of the hardware and Vista as far as I can tell. (Compaq Presario C500 laptop.) Very frustrating, but now I'm determined to find out what it is!
It sounds like you do have a gamma problem, but perhaps just not this one; because in this case, when you reboot, things should be back to normal.
This free program might fix your problem: http://www.hex2bit.com/products/product_mcw.asp
That tool didn't seem to work in Vista (installer quit with no explanation). I messed around with the gamma settings in Color Management but couldn't get a satisfactory result: though I believed that it was just that the blue gamma was too high (white appears as blue, for example) just messing around with the brightness/contrast/etc couldn't quite fix it, so I'm suspicious that it might not be a gamma issue after all. I realize that I'm not giving nearly enough information for a diagnosis, but it's a very hard effect to describe without seeing it--white appears as blue, black appears fine, but dark greys appear slightly reddish (and the other colors are all off). Do you have any other suggestions for places I could look around to try to find other possible problems that might result in something like this?
And thanks again for your time!
OK, I booted it into Knoppix and the problem was still showing up, so I figure it has to be hardware now. Sorry to sidetrack y'all on this, and thanks for all your help!
the issue with the ICC profile being reset (even if it is listed in color management and activated)in some conditions (reboot, graphics settings change, sleep, etc....) is still there. It is surprising that only a few people noticed the problem when it occurs on ALL VISTA editions.
Looks like most people are not using this feature or they are blind.
Today December 11, 2007 Microsoft didn't fix at all the problem. Vista is poor software.
I wonder if this bug has been feixed in SP1?
I have a problem that when i open pictures taken by a Nicon camera on a Windows Vista OS the images have sort of a blue background. The same images on other computers running XP appear perfect. To your knowledge does DisplayProfile solve this problem too?
thanks for your assitance.
Zvika
Possibly - it indicates that your gamma is incorrect. So you either have to calibrate it, or have it calibrated already and are experiencing this bug.
Good news everyone: it looks like this bug has been patched in SP1.
I'm actually running Windows Server 2008 Nov. CTP right now, which should share the same codebase as Vista SP1 - just finished calibrating my monitor, and the gamma profile has not been reset by locking the screen or hibernating.
Excellent news - I've confirmed that with the installation of Office 2007 SP1, now the gamma is no longer reset when booting up Word, PowerPoint, Excel or OneNote 2007 on Vista. The gamma used to get reset EVERY TIME I booted up one of these programs. Offifce 2007 SP1 has repaired the problem, yahoo!!!
This confirmed my suspicions that this is NOT a hardware issue, but it is a software-related issue, unique to Vista.
HOWEVER, this fix did NOT (and probably should not be expected to) fix the general Vista-related gamma reset problems on the user authentication control prompt, or when docking/undocking USB devices (even something as simple as mice, dammit!).
I am now updating Vista with SP1 RC - will keep you all informed on how it turned out. SP1 RC is now available through Windows Update (it's a little tricky to download, though). Here's hoping for the best...
Jeff
I didn't experience it with Office 2007, but I'm glad it fixed it for you :)
Good luck with SP1 RC, let us know how it goes!
I've installed Office 2007 SP1 and still have the reset problem whenever Outlook has opened and started to download messages. I wait in anticipation for Vista SP1 reports...
O.K., guys, now for the bad news: Vista SP1 did NOTHING to solve the gamma reset problem for me. It took over two hours of my time to go through that ordeal, and... nothing. Zilch. Bug squat!
I also am starting to wonder whether Office 2007 SP1 had anything at all to do with the gamma problems. I checked out Microsoft's list of all of the bazillions of items that were fixed in Office 2007 SP1. Not a single one had anything to do with display gamma or color profiles. Nevertheless, my problem seems to have been solved for Office 2007.
I must also admit that when I downloaded Vista SP1 RC, I installed all of the other available updates through Windows Update for Vista. So to be honest, I really have no idea at all why the gamma problem got fixed for Office 2007. It was, however, the same exact problem that many of us have encountered with Vista.
I also called Toshiba to see if there was anything they could do for me. (My laptop with Vista preinstalled is a new Dynabook TX66/A.) Basically, they treated me as if I was out of my mind. No one had ever heard of the problem, and apparently it wasn't in their support database. They suggested that I reinstall the display drivers for Vista, which I had of course already tried and tried again. And get this: Toshiba's "recommendation" was that I do a full system recovery and send my computer in to them for "analysis". I asked how long this would take. They gave me a very rough guesstimate of 2-3 weeks, perhaps more. They said they would not supply a loaner PC in the meantime. I cordially replied that I would take care of things myself!
Honestly - that's that.
You don't have much left, in terms of recourse. Microsoft is not accepting any bug reports for SP1 for bugs that existed in RTM - basically, our role in the testing program is to ensure that SP1 doesn't introduce any new bugs — nothing more, nothing less.
It is up to Microsoft and Microsoft alone to decide if a bug in Vista gets addressed in SP1... and they've chosen to ignore a lot of these things are driving users crazy.
Sending it in to Toshiba is a total waste of time, we're 99.9999% sure that this is a confirmed Vista bug, all that's missing is a knowledgebase article on the issue.
Like I mentioned before, I never did experience it with Office 2007 so I have no idea what it was that fixed it for you.
If this means a lot to you, go back to XP or another OS, because if SP1 doesn't address this, you'll have to wait until SP2: it is against Microsoft policy to hotfix/autoupdate minor bugs because they might break more things than they fix.
OOPS.
the problem I had with the ICC profile being reset at startup is not a vista bug.
(correct profile was loaded by Eye1display 2 locader -or spectraview loader- then a few seconds later it was reset/removed without reason).
The problem was with the nvidia startup driver file.
If you are annoyed too, launch MSCONFIG, startup items, UNCHECK Nvidia compatible vista driver 1xx.xx and reboot (it doesn't remove the driver but the nvidia gamma will not overwrite your custom ICC).
Sorry (my english) I'm not sure it is a LUT problem as written in the original post.
well..... to be more precise the original post is probably ANOTHER problem.
thanks chris, that's a great solution, but isn't unchecking of the graphics driver a bit risky?
I have solved the problem by using a utility called 'startup delayer' http://r2.com.au/software.php?page=2&show=startdelay&PHPSESSID=59c807301a3a0e751f4411aae4bc66b4
and I set the sypder2pro utility to start after 65 seconds. And then it is never being reseted by neither vista or the nvidia drivers..
I believe Spyder2Pro uses the same method employed by DisplayProfile, so if you're experiencing the ICC profile reset issue upon locking the screen or hibernating, it wouldn't fix the issue.
Well, it doesn't kick the right profile after locking, log-off, or sleep (is that what you meant by hibernating?).
Well, as reported elsewhere, SP1 RTM does NOT fully fix this problem here. After a suspecd resume, Vista does eventaully restore the correct profile, but there seem other events that reset the LUT and Vista doesn't spot it. Like pugging in a device (USB) and some othert events I've not got a conclusion on yet.
I made an accidental discovery that plays-into all this, which I can't explain, but thought someone would have some ideas...
I bought a new Vista box a couple of months back, and never had any of the problems you all are experiencing (in fact, I thought you were crazy) - Custom profile with a Gretag MacBeth iOne, the loader would fire it up, and life was good (it never once reset).
HOWEVER- The other day, I got a new monitor. The old one (a Sony) was running with the "Generic pnp" monitor driver.
I merely unplugged it, and plugged-in the new one (a Samsung), and immediately, I began experiencing what you folks are describing - The profile would reset to a "bluish" thing a few moments after boot-up, every time the screensaver kicked-in, or I locked the system, etc.
It's important to note that other than swapping (physically) the monitors, literally nothing else changed - Same "Generic pnp" monitor driver, same nVidia card & driver - Even the same (incorrect) color profile I'd previously created for the old monitor.
When I powered the machine down with the old monitor, it was perfect. When I powered it back up with the new monitor - All the pain you guys are reporting.
As "nutty?" as it sounds.... It's almost as if some kind of "communication?" with the monitor plays-into this?
I'll be interested in hearing what the gurus think.
As a sidebar, I've since installed the driver that came with the new monitor (Samsung) instead of using the Generic one, and still, the problem persists. Also tried connecting the (old) Sony again, and the problem vanished!!! In my case, at least, this appears to definitely be tied to the monitor.
ByteTraveler, that's interesting. Are you using Vista SP1 yet?
John,
No -I'm running the original Vista Home Ultimate that shipped with this (HP) computer, with all patches (several hours' worth) applied (back in December).
I've been avoiding SP1 until it goes "main stream" through Windows Update.
I have today been in touch with the Windows Experience Color Team and received a very helpful and informative response from their program manager.
I've posted the info on my blog: http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/blog.php?b=2110
Well, I hope they do this properly.
On my system, the LUT gets reset not JUST when there's an event that dims the screen. It will happen when there's virtually any configuration change. Adding/removing a USB device. Or even adding/removing a network cable.
Maybe this is caused by anything that forces the OS to refresh its device list. Then the LUT is reset when the OS checks the display/adapter is still there?!? But what do I know... Just my 2C.
John, if you disable UAC do you still get this behavior?
I know that I had it with UAC off (meaning the screen doesn't dim in the first place), so I'm not sure if that's an accurate description.... Unless, of course, Vista is stupid enough to attempt to dim the screen regardless of whether it's actually going to prompt for authorization or not!
I can confirm that I still get the same behaviour with UAC turned off. Seems like any system event forces the gamma table to be reset (and in some circumstances bizarrly even restored)
Whenever I use the DisplayProfile program, I get an "Unknown Error: 5021" Response and it does nothing... Any tips?
You probably need to generate new ICC profiles.....
hellow sir, by mistake i delete adobe gamma from my computer. how can i reinstall it?
Has this bug been fixed? I'm wondering because I'm NOT experiencing it. I haven't installed Windows Vista SP1 yet, but I have installed all the automatic updates available up to this point. I don't have Microsoft Office. I can't say for sure whether it was a problem for me and went away or if it never was a problem for me - I haven't tested it until now.
This is what I did to test it: 1. Adjusted my monitor's color settings to be well out calibration by turning the Blue adjustment up. This is because when the display is properly calibrated the effect of applying a color profile is very small - almost unnoticeable, and I wanted to be able to tell distinctly when the color profile was applied and when it had been removed.
Used Gretagmacbeth Eye-One Match software and the Eye-One Pro colorimeter to profile the display. This also tells Windows to associate the newly created profile with the display. As expected, this "corrected" the intentional mistake I made earlier of turning the Blue adjustment too high (at least as good as you'd expect for a software fix).
Tried to get Windows Vista to clobber the applied color profile and was unsuccessful. I tried rebooting, sleeping, hibernating, locking the screen, User Account Control prompts, and inserting/removing devices.
This is what I've got: Operating System: Windows Vista Business (Windows Version 6.0 Build 6000) Graphics Adapter: NVIDIA GeForce 6150, Driver Version 7.15.11.6369 dated 9/11/2007 Monitor: Dell 2405FPW
I just experienced it yesterday on this PC:
Nope, not fixed, even with SP1. This is Not Good.
As I posted previously, I received a response from the Windows Experience Color Team saying the following:
It's a known problem (and has been known for a long time) and it's caused by the fade-to-black transitions that Vista uses during login, resume, UAC check etc. The black fade is achieved by manipulating the gamma tables, but after the fade is completed the system fails to restore the correct values.
There will not be a fix in Vista SP1, but the fix has been cleared for release as a Windows Update Hotfix shortly after SP1.
"Shortly after" SP1 means exactly whatever long it takes, I bet two years more. So don't count on it, just don't buy Vista and use XP if you must or Linux (which has no color management as well).
This gamma table bug was one of the major motivators for me to go Macintosh for my graphic design work. Trust me, I love Windows for what it does; but I need a reliable platform for color design work, and Vista isn't it. Microsoft tried, really tried hard with their new color management system for Vista, but in the meantime, they left this gamma table problem with us. Many of us are experiencing it and have come here for answers. A few have not experienced it - it may be because of their graphic card drivers, or some other factor, perhaps.
As I wrote previously, I've had some success anyway with Pantone/Gretagmacbeth's Huey monitor calibration tool - it fixes the damage done by the Vista gamma table bug within a matter of seconds after the problem surfaces. So if I insisted on using Vista for design work, I could probably do it if I kept Huey plugged in and the calibration automatically refreshed every few minutes or so. It's nice in the meantime to hear that Microsoft admits that there is a problem. It would be nice to see a knowledgebase article or some other official news from them.
Just a minor clarifaction: Linux does support color management.
For what it maybe worth, after Windows Update ran this week (4/9/08) my problem with the color LUT being wiped out after sleep or locking windows has been resolved. I am running Vista 64. Windows installed 9 updates on the 9th, however none of them listed this problem or that it had been fixed. Anyway, I am glad that it is repaired. It was a major PITA! Conrad.
Not completely fixed here :-( 32bit Vista Ultimate, fully patched.
A UAC prompts still messes up the LUT
Likewise on 32-bit Ultimate and Home Premium PCs, still whenever UAC, USB device insertion/removal, Office 2007 starting/Outlook 2007 downloading emails, etc...
I wonder what update that was - the last WU totally ruined my computer and I must now format it... Keyboard no longer works from the bootloader selection screen onwards!
When I frist began having problems, I shut off the UAC, and I dont have any Office products installed on my Vista 64 machine. I guess that is why that it appeared to be fixed. My Vista 64 machine is used solely for photo & video editing, I use my older XP box for general office and internet use. Perhaps one day M$ will fix the rest of the issues. Until then I will stay with my current setup.
I got a question : I got only 1 Profile with gamma table tag in my list when i run display Profile and unfortunately it has the gamma settings "1" inside obviously, because if i switch to it, gamma is set to 1. Can i download somewhere any Monitor Profiles or a programm that creates usable Monitor Profiles?
Monitor type : iiyama E2200WS
This site is really helpful. recently suffered with same problem. I had been using Spyder2express on my hp dv6000 with intel(r) 945 chipset with Vista Home premium for almost 9 months and it was running beautifully. No change in color from hibernate or LUT.
About 2 months ago, i installed the optional updates which was the intel driver. upon installing, the problem described here started showing. I rolled back the driver from the previous and it worked beautifully...until now.
I had my laptop upgraded from 1bg memory to 2gb, the one who did the upgrade updated everything including the optional updates. Then turned off the laptop so i wasnt able to rollback the driver.
Been trying to find the best solution without re-formatting and this by far is the closest (using the displayprofile).
I believe the fault maybe on the graphic driver.
Microsoft has published an advisory, along with what may be a fix:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/951537/en-us
I have a fully-patched Windows Vista Ultimate x64 with nVidia 7900GS card. I still have the problem. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling the update from MS that is supposed to fix the problem, and it still occurs. I lose the gamma table after hibernation, sleep, rebooting. Oddly, about one out of five times running Google Chrome causes the gamma table to reset as well. Weird! Anyway, for now I'm using DisplayProfile to restore my profile, but it's a pain!
I think it wany be a display driver bug. But in any case the problem persists for me too.
Microsoft has confessed the problem is on their end - look for the hotfix in my earlier comment.
Hi Mahmoud, I did try that "fix" from MS and it didn't help. I even tried uninstalling the fix and reinstalling it. Vista still exhibits the same behaviour.
Sorry Kevin, I really don't know what to tell you. My comment was directed at John from the post after yours.
Ahhh ok. Thanks Mahmoud. I hope this problem gets resolved for everyone soon. I'd like to think of Vista as being a serious platform for graphics work, but this is a major problem for anyone trying to create professional output, and it's discouraging that it's still not fixed for many people. Anyway, hopefully our discussion here will help others who are looking for solutions to this...
Hi Mahmoud. Sadly, my experience is the same as Kevin's. Like Kevin I'm running Vista x64...
Likewise here, still the same behaviour in both 32 and 64-bit flavours of Vista with the patch mentioned by Mahmoud. The problem could be in two areas, one in Vista and two the graphics driver knowing what custom LUT was loaded via a third party so that it knows to restore that value on card reset.
Shame the problem has been un-addressed for so long.
I'm currently on Windows XP x64 now, but previously I was on Windows Vista x64 (as stated in my earlier comments) and had the issues thankfully resolved through one or more of the updates to Vista post-SP1.
I'll send an email to some guys at Microsoft and see if they have any advice to offer, but don't held your breath.
It occurred to me that one way to get MS's attention is to comment on their advisory, that Mahmoud posted earlier:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/951537/en-us
If enough people click on "No" under "Did this article solve your problem?" and describe what's happening for them, then Microsoft's knowledgebase software will flag this issue for review. So, if you're having this gamma table bug issue still, please take the time to do this.
Thanks!
EDITOR'S NOTE: Add a link to "http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/windows-vistas-gamma-table-bug/" in the description, it'll show them you know what you're talking about.
That's a good idea, Kevin.
It's probably a good idea to add a link to this page http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/windows-vistas-gamma-table-bug/ in the comments - it'll point the people at MS to the experiences of a lot of people with this problem, show them you know what you're talking about, and give them people to ask for more info.
I also just noticed that the update was meant to resolve this problem for people with multiple-monitors... does everyone here experiencing this issue have multiple monitors?
I personally do (and this update fixed it), but I'm wondering if perhaps there is another bug for people w/out multiple monitors that is causing this problem to persist and going undetected since it's actually a different bug than the one solved with this update..
Very good point, Mahmoud. I did notice that yesterday too. I only have one monitor. Maybe the problem could be fixed by buying a second monitor? :P Anyway, an interesting note for sure... I don't see a related bug listed in MS's knowledgebase. I'll report in the comments on the issue that I only have one monitor, and, as you noted, reference this thread too.
Hi guys, i do not know if my problem is the same as yours. I am running on a vaio laptop and recently upon updates from microsoft's auto updates, each time my laptop sleeps or hibernates, the screen would be so bright that it looks like its covered 95% in white.windows was still functional except that the display was amazingly too bright to navigate. The situation was ok after i restarted or avoided letting the laptop sleep. But suprisingly, the situation becomes permanent and each time i start windows, the display would be super bright as always. I have tried putting the gamma, brightness etc in nvidia control panel to the lowest.. but it is still bright. I have not yet tried formating but i do not have any intentions as yet. I did tried system restore to earlier dates but still the problem is not solved. It's been about 4 days now and its a depressing state lol. I would deeply appreciate it if there is anyone here who have any idea what went wrong. still, if my problem is the same as the previous entries.. i would just wait for updates. THANKS!
ICC Profiles override gamma settings on the monitor and graphics card - there is a good chance that you're seeing the same issue as others in this thread.
Update all graphics drivers & install the patch all the while praying it'll work and see what happens :)
Thanks for the advice man. Its strange because now the screen flickered then the screen magically went back to normal. But after i install updates due to system restore, the screen went bright again. Its strange that the updates was important and recommended updates that are of security and vista's update files. I once again system restored back and after few moments surfing IE in the awkwardly bright lighting, the screen went back normal. Now im trying to update without an optional driver update for my graphic card. Hope everything will be fine soon
sadly.. problem still persist :(
Strange one, I've only just bought a new Sony Vaio FW series laptop (Vista Home Premium), installed all the usual stuff I use (Full Office 2007, CS3, Lightroom, Nikon Capture NX, DevStudio 2008) and Huey Pro and found I don't have the same LUT problem as I did with an N-series using integrated Intel 945GM graphics. The new laptop is using a dedicated ATI graphics controller. After nearly 2 years I'm starting to think that the problem now lies more with the graphics drivers (Sony with built in Intel controllers have been poorly supported with compatible updates).
Maybe the 'bug' is in MS's WHQL testing (or whatever they use these days), which doesn't verify the drivers work in this respect?
The fix Microsoft implemented is more of a workaround. Some activities still may cause the LUT problem. However, it seems that now windows vista has a service that checks the profile on an interval. If this supposed service sees the profile in the LUT differs from what is set it switches it back automatically. You can test this by setting the correct profile, then putting your computer to sleep. Then wake it up and you should see the wrong profile. Wait a few minutes and the right profile should be set automatically. At least this is how mine works.
I am running Vista Business 32 bit in bootcamp on a Mac and also have the problem. I have fully calibrated my external monitor but when Vista starts it always selects the sRGB default profile. I have to manually call up my calibrated profile. I have installed all updates which include the security update referenced by Mahmoud. Very unfortunate that Microsoft doesn't provide a permanent fix for this bug.
Hi Drew, do you know what this service is called? I was hoping it would work for me, but it doesn't. I waited about 10-15 minutes after waking the computer, and the profile did not switch by itself. Maybe the service isn't running on my computer? Anyway, it seems like a bit of a half-hearted fix. If there is a service that fixes the post-sleep profile problem, it should be set to run immediately after waking the computer.
A couple days ago I fixed (on my comp) the "waking" and other problems by unchecking three Intel Common User Interface modules in System Configuration/Startup menu. Since then - no problem. Just don't touch any related to graphic adapter menues. (Vista Business 32, HP Compaq 6530b).
An alternative to displayprofile is Xcalib - it's originally for linux. Basically, you can have it set an icc profile as well as alter the gamma by passing it arguments (it's all command line). I've got a shortcut set up on my desktop so I can just double-click and switch the gamma back.
Just put something like
C:\YourPathHere\xcalib.exe gammaadjustedprofile.icc
in the "Target" field of the shortcut.
http://xcalib.sourceforge.net/
Thanks for that. Certainly much easier than using the GUI tools to perform the same thing. (Y)
Thanks Brian. Xcalib was EXACTLY the tool I've been looking for. I wrote a little batch file to wait 5 seconds and then run Xcalib with my profile. Then I installed Hibernate Trigger to run it on resume from sleep:
http://www.desimonesystems.com/suspendtrigger/index.php
Problem solved for now :)
Is here any word on when we might see the hotfix for this?
Richie
MS considers this to be fixed, according to their fix listed here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/951537/en-us
If it's not working for you, let MS know by commenting at the bottom of the knowledgebase article. Hopefully they'll get the hint and have another look at it. Until then, check out the XCalib/Hibernate Trigger solution I posted above. It's working perfectly for me right now.
It seems like problem is not in Vista but in video drivers. I found a solution for my HP 2710p (intel 965 video) by removing igfxpers.exe from autorun. It's important to leave alone igfxtray.exe and hkcmd.exe or trick will not work. On my desktop pc i have no problem with Radeon 4850 as it is. I use BasICColor Display and Spyder 3. Windows Vista Business SP1. Windows Vista Ultimate SP1. Good luck 2 everyone :)
I have a Intel X3100 based X61 tablet, and I tried the trick of disabling igfxtray.exe from startup, and that seems to have fixed my problem. I believe this is some sort of bug or conflict with the Intel driver's color management features.
Sorry, I meant igfxpers.exe.
thank you, killing igfxpers.exe fixed the problem on my lg-r510 with intel 4500mhd video.
christoph
The problem is with Vista and it is well known bug in the system. Vista keeps on resetting callibrated colour profiles to WCM each time you reboot etc John D
I don't know how you have come to the conclusion that it is not Vista when Microsoft admit there is a compatability problem as does X-rite (Eye-One Displaty 2) monotor profiling device/software. GOOGLE is full of the problem from many web sites etc.
John D
It's back!!!!
In Windows 7 RC2!
Lovely...
Matt, are you serious? :S
One would have hoped that since it's really obvious that MS has discovered the cause of the bug, it would've been vanquished in Windows 7.... :'(
Yep! The bug is back in Windows 7 - this annoying thing is still their. I "love" Microsoft - they can improve your shitty "Virus Defender", make their buggy ReadyBoost crap, create their Surface for CEO's fun - but they never fix the really annoying bugs with end-users experience issues immediately. You have to wait for dozens of years.
What's really dumb is they now have in the built in equivalent of "Adobe Gamma" and yet on every screen save, UAC flash, or whatever you lose the very gamma setting that THEY set.
A big duh.
Reading above it seems to be a chipset/driver combination that's susceptible to this. Still Not Good that this hasn't been spotted and fixed. :-(
I believe it is a chipset/driver issue from what I'm observing:
On a one NS series VAIO laptop with Vista x32 and integrated Intel GMA the problem is persistent. Still there after upgrade to Windows 7 x86
Another FW series VAIO laptop with ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4000 was never a problem under both Vista x86 and now Windows 7 x86. Able to have UAC pop up, hibernate, start Office 2007, plug-in and remove USB devices, etc... without having the above issue.
A VAIO RS series desktop with ATI X1300 card and Vista x86 has the issue. I cannot see this changing if upgraded to Windows 7 x86.
A final VAIO R series desktop with ATI Radeon HD 3000 is OK.
My feeling on the matter is that it's poor driver design and a lack of communication and ownership of the issue between M$ and hardware vendors and a lack of willingness for drivers for older and embedded graphics to be updated/corrected.
Well I confirm I've got same matter on Windows 7 64 Bits ... When I use DisplayProfile on a game in windowed mode all is ok , but when i play on fullscreen mod i lost my ICM profile...
Any suggestions ?
No suggestions unfortunately (I wish I did since I'm still plagued by it). What is curious is that it appear to reboot with the correct ICM/ICC profile and then soon after flips to the non-LUT-loaded version (ie: pre-ICM/ICC loaded version).
I think John and Andrew may be correct that it's an interaction between the chipset driver implementation and Windows 7. I base this on some behaviors I get when I play with the Intel Mobile driver settings.
It's hard to know if this will be fixed in the shipped version since M$ hasn't applied a patch to Windows 7 for about a month and I'm sure it has plenty to do so with. This is actually kind of dumb on their part since it makes people, including myself, wonder about the quality of the released product and if they want to wait for a purchase. The general rule of thumb is to wait until the SP1 of any M$ product gets released, but I was hoping not in this case since it does seem to otherwise run pretty well on my netbook.
FYI, I'm running a Toshiba Netbook NB205. The graphics driver is an Intel 945 Express and it's using the latest Intel Windows 7 "beta" driver 8.15.10.1825.
Just to be clear it's also Windows 7 RC (7100).
Added thread here at M$ to see if I could get some answers:
http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/GettingReadyforWindows7/thread/b56b1776-3dc7-4abd-a569-590c681cdbc6
I have a similar set-up to you Matt - A Toshiba laptop with a Mobile Intel (R) 965 Express Chipset. However I don't believe this has anything to do with 'colour mamagement' problems. Around 2 months ago I purchased an X-Rite Eye-One Display2 and carried out the colour profiling of my Dell 2209WA LCD monitor. I soon found out the problen re - the resetting of the 'colour profile'. Having looked through several 'forums' I found out that this was a common problem with Vista in particular. The solutions and causes given were endless so I e-mailed X-Rite. They replied almost immediately stating they new of this problem and that the only solution that appeared to overcome the problem was by using 'DISPLAY PROFILE'. They never asked for details of my computer etc. It would therefore appear the actual computer isn't the cause but it is related to VISTA etc 'new colour management system'. I find that on booting up, my monitor does accept the calibrated profile but within a very short time after, it reverts to VISTA settings. When this happens I reset the profile my means of 'DISPLAY PROFILE'and this setting remains until such times as there are changes which you have already detailed. I check the GAMMA immediately after using 'DISPLAY PROFILE' using www.logam.nl/lcd-test and find it to be as calibrated ie 2.2. When reset by VISTA the gamma is nearer 1.9 I now find I can work around this situation when editing digital images but would welcome a more reliable operating system. Just hope MICROSOFT addresses this issue in the near future. John D
Interesting John - thanks for the follow up here.
I guess the only question I would ask is - are you talking about Vista or Windows 7? You say Vista, but from what I understand SP1 supposedly solved the gamma/ICC problem on Vista. I have worked with two Vista SP2 laptops, including the one of which I currently type (my work laptop which uses a NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GS), and neither have had any trouble maintaining the custom color profile.
Only my Windows 7 netbook (Toshiba NB205 with Intel 945) is having issues.
If you really are using Vista and having the problem, maybe there is something to the Intel drivers mucking things because that would be the common denominator. Again, as far as I know, with the latest service packs the color management issues have been solved with Vista. The Windows 7 issue is new however.
Just checking.
Thanks!
Hi Matt, I now find your reply to be very interesting.
It is VISTA I have and it is updated fully including SP1 but I am still getting the conditions that I stated in my last submission. As you say the Intel, being the common denominator, may be involved in the reseting of the 'calibrated profiles'. However from what I read previously in other forums computer with other graphics were also suffering similar reseting problems. If it is the Intel it would appear there isn't much we can do to rectify the problem then. Wii be interesting to see if others follow up on the INTEL relationship.
John D
Unfortunately, I have begun to experience this as well just like I did with Vista.... Except with only a single DVI monitor plugged into my Windows 7 x64 PC running the latest version of the ATi drivers for my HD3870. :'(
Thank you very much for this interesting thread. I'm runnig Windows 7 Professional on 2 machines here. On both the same issue exists: Profile info gets lost when system resumes from standby, after Windows Media Center was launched etc. pp.
To get you some more ideas these are my 2 testing configurations:
I tried both systems in single and dual display mode, with a Samsung monitor and a Samsung HD TV. Always the same. The info gets lost, but the color management console still has the information about the correct profile as default. I even tried without the original Intel drivers and the error still exists.
Very poor, MS!
I put XCalib into a batch file to be able to restore the profiles when needed. This works, but is a lot of overhead because I need some different batch scripts for the different configurations. I thought I'd go to write an AutoIt script that loads the correct profiles depending on the configuration it finds.
I just wanted to ask if someone here is interested in this. And is there any new information?
Hi Thomas,
You may have read my earlier comments and since then I haven't found a solution other than making use of 'Display Profile'.
I downloaded 'Display Profile' and use it to revert to the monitor profile that I have established with the use of 'X-Rite Eye-One Display2' before carrying out digital editing etc.
'Display Profile' certainly corrects the Microsoft related colour profiling issue and maintains the correct colour profile as calibrated.
John D
Hello John,
Of course I've read about you and some others using DisplayProfile. I tried that, too. It works, but I find it very uncomfortable because I always have to click on the appropriate profile. And using more than one monitor with different combinations becomes very uncomfortable with DisplayProfile because I have to move the program's window to the correct monitor ...
That's why I thought it might be useful to write a script as I mentioned. This script could find out what monitors are connected and which profile has to be assigned to each one of them.
Thomas
Sorry just trying to help. Seems you'll have to wait a bit longer for the simple solution that you obviously require.
John ----
If you guys like, when I get the time, I can write up a quick command-line utility to auto-load display profiles.
To speed things up: what exact functionality is required?
Got it - at least for me.
It turns out it wasn't, and perhaps isn't, Windows 7's fault. It looks like some cards, particularly Intels, load their own gamma parameters whether you like it or not. So, in my case what I was seeing was on boot the colors come up correctly via Windows 7's color management (without having to use "ColorVisionStartup" to load the LUT for my custom profile), however a few seconds later it would get overridden with the uncalibrated profile.
Well I did some digging and it became clear that the problem seemed to be something starting up after Windows 7 loaded the LUT. Moreover if I set the RGB gamma in Intel GMA control panel to bizarro values and rebooted, well low and behold those bizarro gamma values were the ones getting shoved in after the correct custom profile.
So that pretty much cinched it that Intel's driver was mangling the LUT. More Googles later and I ran into this:
> just wanted to tell how I stopped losing the gamma when I restart the computer. I learned from this blog to uncheck igfxpers.exe from the autorun. > (Start > Run... > msconfig > Startup) > http://neosmart.net/blog/2007/windows-vist...amma-table-bug/
From:
http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=808104
And oddly enough, disabling "igfxpers.exe" via "msconfig" does the trick. This makes sense - Windows 7 loads the LUT at boot, later as you're logging in "igfxpers.exe" starts up and trashes you LUT.
Now, for most PCs, disabling "igfxpers.exe" is said to be safe, however been warned for UMPCs it seems to be used to switch Intel GMA "Scheme"s at boot from low to high resolution and can cause problems if you disable it. However normal PCs should be a non-issue (to note, I ran the Intel GMA control panel to look up the "Scheme" info I just wrote and it just trashed my LUT again! - clearly it's Intel's stupid control stuff).
Anyway, now the problem seems to be finding a way to report this bug with Intel (to note some NVidia cards also seem to use "igfxpers.exe" causing similar problems). And if by some miracle I can find a way to report the problem, getting them to care is probably even harder!
> and perhaps isn't, Windows 7's fault
I know what you mean, but how does what now appears to be faulty drivers/processes (igxfpers.exe) make it past MS's compatibility tests? I would say it IS a MS problem for sure. They are allowing/passing software that is incompatible with the way Win 7 operates the LUT table.
@Mahmoud Al-Qudsi: Thank you very much for this offer. I think XCalib already has what is needed to activate the correct profile. There's only one thing missing: A decision which monitor has currently which index. But this might be possible to find out using the AutoIt script language. When I find the time I'll have a look at this myself. But thank you very much again.
@Matt Fahrner: I understand what you want to say. But I think from a software developer's point of view I have to agree with Wibbly. MS simply has not done their homework. And Intel hasn't either.
BTW, I didn't mention earlier, but in my case "igfxpers.exe" was disabled already. Only "igfxsrvc.exe" is still running. But this module is needed to recognize a monitor change. So disabling this would be counterproductive somehow.
Thomas
@Matt Fahrner: I agree, it's definitely Intel's fault (independent whether MS has ignored it or not). I made the same tests here. But it can't be "igfxpers.exe" if it's not loaded. Must be somewhere deeper in the drivers.
As a workaround it would be in interesting if someone has an idea how to bypass the driver's behavior or how to disable it.
@Thomas
Interesting - it definitely solved it for me. Clearly there's more sauce involved with this goose than meets the eye. Wish I knew what to suggest.
@All
I'll give you you'd think Microsoft and Intel would be joined at the hip and testing this as part of hardware certification. I still think the majority of the blame falls on Intel - clearly its their driver insisting on loading the LUT when it shouldn't load the LUT (unless you specifically tell it to)(that is, if you haven't manually adjusted the gammas in GMA, it should just leave the LUT alone). At a minimum they (Intel) should just give you the option to enter the custom profile into the GMA.
That said, yes, Microsoft should have seen and fixed this given the quantity of systems using Intel based graphics out there. I think part of the issue is honestly there are relatively few people who calibrate their monitors. Moreover a lot that do are Apple users.
I don't really care who's problem it is, I'm going to see if I can get a ticket in somewhere. What's reprehensible is how hard it is to find a way to give feedback to these companies that has a chance of being viewed...
@Matt All my hardware is standalone GPU units; and I've been previously able to reproduce this behavior on machines powered by both ATi & nVidia hardware. So I think there is something wrong on Microsoft's end as well... or two (or more) different problems manifesting themselves with the same symptoms.
@All: OK, it bothered me too much and I finally ended up with the following little script. You need some utilities to run this:
Save the following lines between
andin a text file called "ColorProfile.au3":include
Opt('MustDeclareVars', 1)
_Main()
Func _Main() If $CmdLine[0] 3 Then MsgBox(0, "Set Color Profile", "Instructions:" & @LF & @LF & _ """path_to_autoit\AutoIt.exe"" " & _ """path_to_this_file\ColorProfile.au3"" " & _ """name_of_monitor"" " & _ """path_and_name_of_icc_or_icm_file"" " & _ """path_to_XCalib\XCalib.exe""") Exit EndIf
EndFunc ;==>_Main
This script is called the following way. I just give an example with shortened paths.
"x:\path1\AutoIt3.exe" "y:\path2\ColorProfile.au3" "SyncMaster 226CW" "z:\path3\MyProfile.icc" "n:\path4\XCalib.exe"
Where
I hope things became clear this way.
I put 2 calls like these into a .bat or .cmd file to re-adjust the profiles for both monitors with one click. If you use different monitors at different times (e.g. for a notebook that is used at work and at home) you just place the calls for more monitors into this file. Monitors that cannot be found will be ignored.
Hope that helps someone.
Thomas
@All: OK, it bothered me too much and I finally ended up with the following little script. You need some utilities to run this:
Save the following lines between -code- and -/code- in a text file called "ColorProfile.au3":
This script is called the following way. I just give an example with shortened paths.
"x:\path1\AutoIt3.exe" "y:\path2\ColorProfile.au3" "SyncMaster 226CW" "z:\path3\MyProfile.icc" "n:\path4\XCalib.exe"
Where
I hope things became clear this way.
I put 2 calls like these into a .bat or .cmd file to re-adjust the profiles for both monitors with one click. If you use different monitors at different times (e.g. for a notebook that is used at work and at home) you just place the calls for more monitors into this file. Monitors that cannot be found will be ignored.
Hope that helps someone.
Thomas
Oops, something with formatting seems to have gone wrong. Very sorry.
I uploaded the code here as well: http://pastebin.com/f7f05ddf. A sample for a batch file SetProfiles.bat may be found here: http://pastebin.com/f5fd795d1 .
Thomas
Script URL was changed to: http://pastebin.com/f74d63f9c .
Today I got the usual we brush you off answer from Intel. Of course they don't or don't want to understand the real problem. Here it is:
Hello Thomas,
Thank you for contacting Intel Technical Support.
As far as I understand, you would like to disable the Intel(R) Color Correction feature that is present with the Intel(R) Graphics Media Accelerator.
Intel provides generic versions of the Intel graphics drivers for general purposes through the Intel Download Center. As such, these drivers are designed to take control of the system graphical properties and settings once they are installed. For this reason, it is not possible to disable the Color Correction feature. However, your computer manufacturer may have altered the features, incorporated customizations, or made other changes to the graphics driver software or software packaging that they provide for your computer. Since you need a driver that acts in a more specialized way, I suggest contacting your system manufacturer so that they can provide a tailored driver to fit specific necessities (e.g. being able to disable features).
Sincerely,
Ronald M. Intel Technical Support
Hmmm not a good response, sounds like passing the buck. hardware vendors are usually very bad or very slow at releasing modified drivers unless it affects mainstream gaming and applications.